Topic ID 1349
Discuss In your opinions would this work. If I were to open a bar, it would sell sell booze at market rates, have large screen televisions that only showed important sporting fixtures (ie major football clashes, Six Nations, Ashes, Wimbledon ect) and were off the rest of the time. Football shirts would be banned. It would have a modern eclectic menu at a reasonable price, sofas a non-smoking area, air extraction a beer garden, music at an audidble level, but not so you have to shout to be heard. Would it work?
Reply ID 16555
As much as any other establishment in Hertford thats exactly the same - yes.
Reply ID 16558
Why would you ban football shirts Victor? I'm not into football but love rugby and would want to wear my England top when watching the 6 Nations, as I honestly believe it helps Jonny (when he's playing!). I can't see a difference between a rugby top and a football shirt.
Reply ID 16563
Having a place like you describe to watch sport would be great - Hertford is definitely missing something along those lines - I've never really enjoyed watching football anywhere in Hertford, and often end up somewhere like the Woolpack, where I would never normally venture... But don't you think banning football shirts in a sports bar is a bit daft? And would that rule apply to rugby shirts (or even polo shirts?)
Reply ID 16564
I think it could be that there are some many fierce rivalries in football that alcohol and people obviously wearing their ‘clan badge’ could increase the chance of trouble between opposing fans. You could argue that a dress code wouldn’t prevent you watching the sport.
Reply ID 16567
I know that not wearing my England top would not stop me from watching the match, but I really wouldn't feel the same!! I always have my Hertford top on to watch the husband and then England for internationals. I think you can tell which side everyone is on depending on when they cheer!
Reply ID 16568
Baroosh tried banning football shirts for a while and it simply does not work. You will find also that the trouble between people at football is usually caused by those who do not wear the colours of their team. A dress code in a nightclub is fair enough but is is grossly unfair to pre-judge a person's behaviour by what they are wearing. In answer to your point Victor, this is an excellent idea so crack on matey and I will love to come in there for my Sunday afternoon football fest and somewhere to watch all the sporting events.
Reply ID 16569
I think the lounge bar, cocktails, slick wine bar serving gastro-pub food is done perfectly well already in Hertford. As is the ‘old man’ ale pub. (Note: please don’t get offended if you are old, a man and like ale; it’s a generalisation to illustrate not a swathing comment for posts similar to “hey I’m old and don’t ever drink ale!”). I would like a bar in the style of an American sports bar – somewhat akin to the Cheers (TV show) type bar. The bar would be probably long (rather than the Cheers square design) have TV’s showing a range of sporting events (not just football but NFL, cricket, NBA, racing, rugby, etc.). Fixed bar seats at the bar and lots of booths, probably serving food of an ilk similar to TGI’s (but nicer). It would have the usual suspects of beer on tap but its raison d'etre would be more of a specialist bottled beer bar. Long ice filled sinks having a very extensive selection of beers from around the world and a beer menu to accompany it. There are so many wine bars but far fewer ‘beer bars’ and yet there is such a large range of taste and styles in the beer world. Maybe at weekend evening it could play some live music, something like a big band, double bass swing type music – there is a band called Big bad Voodooo Daddy that would fit the bill. Dress code would be smart casual and upwards, cost would be representative of the costs to import the beers and their rarity (so probably £3-£6 a bottle dependant on the make/size).
Reply ID 16570
quote:Who said it was a sports bar?
Originally posted by Joby
But don't you think banning football shirts in a sports bar is a bit daft?
Reply ID 16571
Agreed Avarice. Have one big big screen for the major events and lots of smaller versions for less mainstream sports. However, the problem with this is that the proprietor would have to have more than one Sky dish and until they stop overcharging pubs for subscription, this simply could not happen. In the USA, you can do this as the bars are not ripped off by the major tv companies in this way.
Reply ID 16572
Victor, In a word, the answer must be "No". This is your Shangri-la. It's probably approaching mine, too. However, you are looking for a niche market (middle class 30-50 year old males) in a competitive environment. It is not sustainable in Hertford, despite our demographic fitting the bill, because of the competition. Nevertheless, if you build it, I will come. Good luck.
Reply ID 16573
I think you will find that Baroosh will not let anyone in during the world cup that is wearing and football shirt or for that matter a rugby shirt. Saying that Baroosh even went through a period where the bouncers did not like HRFC members wearing their club ties in there on a Saturday and actually went as far to ask some to remove them. There is a distinct difference between groups of people in Rugby shirts v's Football shirts, unfortunately football supports portray a certain image that rugby supporters don't. It is a generalisation I know maybe I would allow them at first and see how things progressed.. If Millstream could point out the similar places in Hertford that already offer comfortable surroundings to watch sport on large TV's and eat decent food at affordable prices I will book my table for Saturdays game. Good topic though eh![8D]
Reply ID 16574
Perhaps the owners of The Office could check in and see what people actually want - it’s not necessarily another s****y lounge bar or a cheap Weatherspoons type pub (although both places will always have their advocates). Thats sw-anky not the other one it looks like.
Reply ID 16575
quote:Pray tell, on what have you based your opinion, baring in mind that you have stated along with every other response that you would frequent a place such as this? Where is the other competition? The Woolpack? The White Hart? The Blackbirds? The Sportsman? These are more or less the only places to watch sport in Hertford. My vision was more along the lines of a mixture of Baroosh, No11 and The Snug that also had the facility to show sport.
Originally posted by 2929paul
Victor, In a word, the answer must be "No". This is your Shangri-la. It's probably approaching mine, too. However, you are looking for a niche market (middle class 30-50 year old males) in a competitive environment. It is not sustainable in Hertford, despite our demographic fitting the bill, because of the competition. Nevertheless, if you build it, I will come. Good luck.
Reply ID 16577
Good idea, although not sure that trying to appeal to everyone works. I guess you get the final say on what is classed as a "Major sporting event" then?!!! I normally go to a different establishment based on what I want at any point in time - ale, garden, sofa, food or footie. You provide a big screen for footie then I will go to it, but I'm not likely to step inside the door if the egg chasing or cricket is on. (Not looking for comment, just using it as an example!) Avarice - "clan badge"???? So does wearing a Dagenham and Redbridge shirt fall into that category? Why tar everyone with the same brush? Are you saying wearing footy shirt = causes trouble?
Reply ID 16579
Your '?' key seems to be sticking. I’d suggest the definition of the individual words quite adequately sums it up: Clan = a traditional basis of social organization, composed of a group of families claiming a common hereditary ancestor. Badge = a piece of metal, cloth, or other material worn to signify a particular membership, rank, occupation, or accomplishment. Seems simple enough.
Reply ID 16581
Shouldn't you ban baseball caps instead, especially burberry ones!
Reply ID 16582
So a shirt is a clan badge by definition whether it be Dagenham and Redbridge or the Wilmslow girl guides netball team. Somewhat off topic – but why buy it and wear it to games if not to associate yourself to others and show your allegiance / liking / support?
Reply ID 16585
Excuse me but I wear my shirt because:- a)I like it. b)I feel proud to wear my colours. c)To be different I am not a a mindless sheep
Reply ID 16587
Then: a) Good for you b) Its therefore a clan badge c) Good for you Anyway, moving on... On heavy Sunday mornings I have been asked on occasion to remove a baseball cap for 'security reasons' whilst at Baroosh (it wasn’t Burberry nor bomb shaped either).
Reply ID 16588
quote:Well, so far there are no women coming in, no-one with football shirts, no-one who wants a cheap drink, no-one who would rather watch Arsenal when you want to watch 6 Nations rugby and plenty of people having a jolly good time with their friends and women folk in Baroosh, No.11 and The Snug. What does Mrs M think of the idea?
Originally posted by Victor Meldrewquote:Pray tell, on what have you based your opinion, baring in mind that you have stated along with every other response that you would frequent a place such as this? Where is the other competition? The Woolpack? The White Hart? The Blackbirds? The Sportsman? These are more or less the only places to watch sport in Hertford. My vision was more along the lines of a mixture of Baroosh, No11 and The Snug that also had the facility to show sport.
Originally posted by 2929paul
Victor, In a word, the answer must be "No". This is your Shangri-la. It's probably approaching mine, too. However, you are looking for a niche market (middle class 30-50 year old males) in a competitive environment. It is not sustainable in Hertford, despite our demographic fitting the bill, because of the competition. Nevertheless, if you build it, I will come. Good luck.
Reply ID 16590
quote:You might get some conflict between those wanting to eat and the "noisy crowd" cheering everytime theres a try or goal. I dont personally think football shirts start trouble, its the bar staff who allow people to get drunk, and fail to eject them when they do so. I was in a certain pub the other evening, one guy was continually swearing and obviously very drunk , yet the manager/landlord did nothing about it.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Discuss In your opinions would this work. If I were to open a bar, it would sell sell booze at market rates, have large screen televisions that only showed important sporting fixtures (ie major football clashes, Six Nations, Ashes, Wimbledon ect) and were off the rest of the time. Football shirts would be banned. It would have a modern eclectic menu at a reasonable price, sofas a non-smoking area, air extraction a beer garden, music at an audidble level, but not so you have to shout to be heard. Would it work?
Reply ID 16592
quote:Vertical stripes make you look thinner. My questions marks were over your use of the phrase clan badge which I found condescending to people who choose to wear the shirt of their team, or the shirt that they like the design of.
Originally posted by Avarice
So a shirt is a clan badge by definition whether it be Dagenham and Redbridge or the Wilmslow girl guides netball team. Somewhat off topic – but why buy it and wear it to games if not to associate yourself to others and show your allegiance / liking / support?
Reply ID 16593
No women?!?!? Why can't I come to the new bar? I would wear my Hertford or England rugby top with pride. I love sport (although, not football) and really enjoy watching the internationals at the rugby club, even though it isn't the greatest screen, it's a lot better than the one at home
Reply ID 16594
Yes, there a quite a few female posters here, would be nice for their opinion (probably a handbags and shoe bar [joke!])
Reply ID 16595
quote:Firstly, I said that it would only play key sporting events, that would mean that the TV would not always be on, especially Friday and Saturday evenings meaning women would drink here. Secondly, the six nations rarely would clash with football fixtures as the majority of games are played on a Saturday from 2.30 onwards. Thirdly the prices would be market rates not Baroosh. Lastly my wife would think it was a fantastic idea as she is my wife and by law has to agree with everything I say. Utopia: Second left at the co-op third door on the right. Oh and yes, who says that women do not enjoy watching sport.
Originally posted by 2929paulquote:Well, so far there are no women coming in, no-one with football shirts, no-one who wants a cheap drink, no-one who would rather watch Arsenal when you want to watch 6 Nations rugby and plenty of people having a jolly good time with their friends and women folk in Baroosh, No.11 and The Snug. What does Mrs M think of the idea?
Originally posted by Victor Meldrewquote:Pray tell, on what have you based your opinion, baring in mind that you have stated along with every other response that you would frequent a place such as this? Where is the other competition? The Woolpack? The White Hart? The Blackbirds? The Sportsman? These are more or less the only places to watch sport in Hertford. My vision was more along the lines of a mixture of Baroosh, No11 and The Snug that also had the facility to show sport.
Originally posted by 2929paul
Victor, In a word, the answer must be "No". This is your Shangri-la. It's probably approaching mine, too. However, you are looking for a niche market (middle class 30-50 year old males) in a competitive environment. It is not sustainable in Hertford, despite our demographic fitting the bill, because of the competition. Nevertheless, if you build it, I will come. Good luck.
Reply ID 16596
Avarice. Don't make sweeping generalisations is what I am saying so don't be so arrogant. Just because I chose to wear a Football shirt, it does not make me a drunken illiterate hooligan who lives on a council estate which is what you are aluding to.Spitfire, you are spot on. The vast majority of people who wear football shirts are the ones who do not cause trouble. Read any book by former football thugs and it is common knowledge that the "Shirts" are the ordinary law abiding fans.
Reply ID 16597
quote:I don't have a handbag - I have a husband to carry the keys and he has a wallet I can dip into!! And I wear steel toe capped work boots, as I spend my days in quarries, so I probably not the person to ask!! [;)]
Originally posted by Avarice
Yes, there a quite a few female posters here, would be nice for their opinion (probably a handbags and shoe bar [joke!])
Reply ID 16598
Great Topic Victor! I'd like to see it completely none-smoking with at least two big screens. The best thing I've seen big-screen wise is in the Elbow Rooms in Angel, where the retractable screen is in the middle of the room and double sided, so you can watch it from anywhere. Lots of smaller screens above the bar (LCD minimum 32") but actually forward of the bar so it's kept free from people not buying drinks and therefore reducing waiting times. Booths to seat up to 8 people, each with it's own TV (again, LCD 32") would be ideal too. All seating would be on comfy couches and tehre would be loads of toilets so there's never a wait. Come to think of it, they would need TV's too so you never miss the action and don't have to bottle it up till half/full time. Also, no microwave meals.
Reply ID 16599
quote:I do see shirts as a badge of honour / clan. I wasn’t meant to be condescending – it was to describe that one ‘clan member’ may take offensive at another based solely on their attire. Regardless of who is playing on TV at the time wearing say a MUFC shirt in certain parts of Manchester (actually probably parts of the entire country) and the added potential spark of alcohol could be problematic.
My questions marks were over your use of the phrase clan badge which I found condescending to people who choose to wear the shirt of their team, or the shirt that they like the design of.
Reply ID 16600
Sounds like my idea of Heaven, thefair.
Reply ID 16601
There should also be a private room(s) with a huge plasma tv, comfy chairs and a waitress service. Just like being at home! I remember watching the 5-1 mauling of our German friends in the private room of the Elbow Rooms, Angel. It cost us £120 to hire for 4 hours, fo whicj you get a soundproof room with it's own plasma and American pool table. You also got waitress service. It was great running out of the room for every England goal just to go mental with the masses. Shame some idiots kept trying to play pool while the game was on though
Reply ID 16602
I do get your point but I have never seen another person attacked for the shirt they are wearing in HERTFORD and we are talking about Hertford and not a major city such as Manchester. Some idiots will use any excuse (Sport especially) to pick a fight regardless.
Reply ID 16604
quote:Perhaps, just perhaps, my parents are from a Liverpool council estate and maybe just maybe I too watch sport in bars, and even posses several sports shirts. I have no recollection of pointedly describing or alluding to you as a hooligan, from an estate, or illerate. Essentially, you got your knickers in a twist at my use of 'clan badge' and an earlier posting elsewhere regarding council estates. Believe what you wish, but let’s move on.
Originally posted by Wrapper
Avarice. Don't make sweeping generalisations is what I am saying so don't be so arrogant. Just because I chose to wear a Football shirt, it does not make me a drunken illiterate hooligan who lives on a council estate which is what you are aluding to.Spitfire, you are spot on. The vast majority of people who wear football shirts are the ones who do not cause trouble. Read any book by former football thugs and it is common knowledge that the "Shirts" are the ordinary law abiding fans.
Reply ID 16606
Consider my knickers untwisted!!!
Reply ID 16607
Right then, the general opinion is that people would want the likes of the above, where does it go? Sele Arms/Bridge House? Probably too far out of town?
Reply ID 16608
quote:...and that portrayal is largely a stereotype. The stereotypical portayal of rubgy is a load of toffs downing 18 pints, singing lewd songs, vomiting and inserting vegetables into each others' a***s....
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
There is a distinct difference between groups of people in Rugby shirts v's Football shirts, unfortunately football supports portray a certain image that rugby supporters don't. It is a generalisation I know maybe I would allow them at first and see how things progressed..
Reply ID 16609
*stands back, grabs popcorn and waits*
Reply ID 16610
quote:By kissball players that is! The 18 pint bit is not too far off, the singing is spot on, most people would be sick if the downed 18 pints and I have never (knowingly) inserted or had inserted a vegatable in to my backside. OR for that matter anyone elses. I dont think I am a Toff either.[:o)]
Originally posted by Jobyquote:...and that portrayal is largely a stereotype. The stereotypical portayal of rubgy is a load of toffs downing 18 pints, singing lewd songs, vomiting and inserting vegetables into each others' a***s....
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
There is a distinct difference between groups of people in Rugby shirts v's Football shirts, unfortunately football supports portray a certain image that rugby supporters don't. It is a generalisation I know maybe I would allow them at first and see how things progressed..
Reply ID 16612
quote:Kick Bollywoods out of the Sportsman, do it up and use that, probaly not be economic due to the state of the building, but would be a great location.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Right then, the general opinion is that people would want the likes of the above, where does it go? Sele Arms/Bridge House? Probably too far out of town?
Reply ID 16614
The bloody great supporting beam right in the middle of the pub is the problem. Same with the Barge. Get rid of WH Smiths, we have enough news agents anyway!
Reply ID 16615
Victor, Have you actually asked your wife? Is utopia somewhere within the walls of the Bengeo Working Mens Club, as was? My wife likes watching rugby, golf, Wimbledon and enjoyed the Ashes last year. Football is "loud and played by idiots who fall over", snooker is "boring", horse racing "boring" etc.
Reply ID 16618
As this is a hyperthetical bar and I am at work no I have not discussed this with her. I would not include Snooker or Horse racing as major sporting events. Dont forget this is a forum, not a chat room[:)]
Reply ID 16622
I think the Corn Exchange would be an ideal venue. It would take a fair amount of cash though and lets face it, it doesn't really get used for anything else. I think Wetherspoons should bin their current planned location and do the Corn Exchange
Reply ID 16627
quote:Sorry - that's bagsied. I'm turning that into a health spa with floation tanks, masseurs, colonic irrigation (for the rugby players...) and acupuncture. Separate sound proofed rooms are available for the chiropractic treatments and for those women who want to watch the soaps. If it starts losing money then it'll be changed into a pole dancing venue: excersize for the women and fleecing of the men.[:D]
Originally posted by thefair1973
I think the Corn Exchange would be an ideal venue. It would take a fair amount of cash though
Reply ID 16629
Why would men part with there hard earned cash to see a load of Polish women dancing?
Reply ID 16630
Would the pole dancers wear football shirts?
Reply ID 16631
Not for long!! [}:)]
Reply ID 16632
quote:They'll wear whatever you want if you pay them enough.[:D]
Originally posted by Avarice
Would the pole dancers wear football shirts?
Reply ID 16634
If you've ever seen a load of Polish women dancing (on poles) you would know why!!
Reply ID 16637
quote:Ah.. you've got me there. Being a delicate english rose I have no knowledge of the sorts of women who poledance. Are they not like the ones in the movies then? [:)] no - not "those" sorts of movies - oh gawd - the hole I'm digging gets ever deeper![:I][:I]
Originally posted by thefair1973
If you've ever seen a load of Polish women dancing (on poles) you would know why!!
Reply ID 16638
Cracking topic Victor. a) Having once witnessed a "candle in the wind", I have seen a rugby player perform 20 press ups with a lighted candle situated, as they say, where the sun don't shine. b) Kevball is what will get the punters through the door. As much as we both prefer rugby, the masses are hooked on the other type. c) People will be put off dining if the bar is too noisy. Bar 11 is a perfect example of how to put people off trying your menu. d) Go for it....
Reply ID 16642
What the hell is Kevball Carlos? You bloomin Peanut Hugging Daily Mail reader!!!
Reply ID 16643
Its the same as kissball and poofball. Mind that line Wrapper dont fall over it you might smudge your San tropez! [8D]
Reply ID 16645
egg-chasing fans are just like Man Utd fans. Prawn sandwich eaters. Mind you, I'm just jealous cos you can drink beer in your seats at games
Reply ID 16649
Yeah can't get used to that being nice to the opposition and drinking in your seat being as I am a shirt wearing drunken council estate hooligan who had to get somebody else to type this for him!!!
Reply ID 16651
I knew it! [}:)]
Reply ID 16653
Thats because the average rugby fan can handle his pop and does not feel the need to fight fans from the other team, which incidentally is why there is also no fan segregation at Rugby Matches. As for prawn Sandwiches, I think you will find its more along the lines of Lobster Taggliatelli washed down with a fine Chabis in the car park before hand. But as most people here have pointed out the average sport fan in Hertford is not your archetypal single lobed cretin that we read about in the newspapers.
Reply ID 16654
quote:That's because there's no passion apart from when they sing Swing Low! They are also only there because their company had some spare tickets going [:p]
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
...there is also no fan segregation at Rugby Matches.
Reply ID 16656
quote:There is no fan segregation in non-league football. Can the average rugby fan read the papers? [:0] I just look at the pictures after I have finished eating my chips Can your bar sell chips? Mmm, chips.....
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Thats because the average rugby fan can handle his pop and does not feel the need to fight fans from the other team, which incidentally is why there is also no fan segregation at Rugby Matches. As for prawn Sandwiches, I think you will find its more along the lines of Lobster Taggliatelli washed down with a fine Chabis in the car park before hand. But as most people here have pointed out the average sport fan in Hertford is not your archetypal single lobed cretin that we read about in the newspapers.
Reply ID 16658
Unless you have tongue in cheek, listen up. I go to footy and rugby matches. I have seen fights at both. Rugby fans generally do not have to kept apart like footy fans. I was in the north bank for Arsenal/West Ham game last week. It was faintly pathetic that west ham fans were being hauled out by stewards whether they had caused trouble or not. Best atmosphere i have experienced for a long time was in the Matthew Harding at Stamford Bridge last season. If you have a chip on your shoulder about your lack of dress sense and illiteracy (and you spell better than some on this forum I might add) there's nothing I can do about it. I have known the phrase kevball for football since I lived in Norf London which was over 30 years ago. I do not read the Daily Mail...their sports coverage is rubbish. If tongue was in cheek ignore the above.
Reply ID 16659
Football, a gentlemans game played by thugs. Rugby, a thugs game, played by gentlemen. Is'nt that how it goes?? I could go on and list all of the so called Football stars miscomings ect ect, but that was not what this topic was about. So lets agree to disagree or your barred! [:D]
Reply ID 16660
ha ha, I thought I was the design consultant? Anyway, would tehre be enough Rugby's to fill a big bar (Even in Hertford)? I do liek the way the Sportsman is actually one of the worst places to watch sport. Quite an apt name
Reply ID 16662
The Sportsman was originally called the Blue Coat Boy, dunno when or why they changed the name and TBH any major Rugby events are shown up at Hoe Lane on a massive screen, I guess if Enger-laand do well in the football they would do the same for that, if you could force yourself to mix with egg chasers and veggie abusers (the beer is good and cheap as well). There must have been a good 200/300 people up there for RWC final in 2003 a fantastic day.
Reply ID 16670
quote:Sounds like what Sloppy Joes should have been.
Originally posted by Avarice
I think the lounge bar, cocktails, slick wine bar serving gastro-pub food is done perfectly well already in Hertford. As is the ‘old man’ ale pub. (Note: please don’t get offended if you are old, a man and like ale; it’s a generalisation to illustrate not a swathing comment for posts similar to “hey I’m old and don’t ever drink ale!”). I would like a bar in the style of an American sports bar – somewhat akin to the Cheers (TV show) type bar. The bar would be probably long (rather than the Cheers square design) have TV’s showing a range of sporting events (not just football but NFL, cricket, NBA, racing, rugby, etc.). Fixed bar seats at the bar and lots of booths, probably serving food of an ilk similar to TGI’s (but nicer).
Reply ID 16763
quote:Which football stadium have you been in that holds over 60,000 people and serves alcahol? Twickenham does and how many drunken riots do you hear of there?
Originally posted by Jobyquote:...and that portrayal is largely a stereotype. The stereotypical portayal of rubgy is a load of toffs downing 18 pints, singing lewd songs, vomiting and inserting vegetables into each others' a***s....
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
There is a distinct difference between groups of people in Rugby shirts v's Football shirts, unfortunately football supports portray a certain image that rugby supporters don't. It is a generalisation I know maybe I would allow them at first and see how things progressed..