Topic ID 1923
Sorry as a resident I need to have a moan and leave the following details to be answered by Police. Also has anyone else experienced this??? Complaint I would like to express my concerns regarding Noise in Hertford Town Centre. I think it's a tragedy when a group of obnoxious idiots are allowed to interfere with our daily lives and pursuits. Often we get noise opposite our home, as groups congregate on Little Hartham by the Flats, Coopers Court. They are often loud, rude and obnoxious and most are often under the influence of Alcohol. This is constantly happening on a regular basis and this is a prime example: - Thursday 17th August - A group congregated after the pubs closed and continue to drink on the green by the Coopers Court Flats, they were getting louder and louder and more aggressive. By 3am we had, had enough of it and my Partner shouted out the window to tell them to move on. After some verbal abuse from their party, we told them they had 5 minutes or we were calling the police, eventually they moved on. Do you have Police that circulate after the Bars/Pubs have closed, in order to reduce noise/violence and destructive behaviour. I encourage you to work with the local residents to greatly strengthen enforcement of our noise ordinances.
Reply ID 24560
Have you actually informed the police?
Reply ID 24576
Where's Little Hartham and Coopers Court?
Reply ID 24578
quote:Folly Island
Originally posted by Titus Groan
Where's Little Hartham and Coopers Court?
Reply ID 24579
Coopers Court is the new development opposite The Barge. I'm guessing that "Little Hartham" is the area just to the left after you've crossed the bridge onto the island, although I've never heard it called that.
Reply ID 24580
Fashion Victim - just call the police!!!!!!! I can't believe you are actually asking people what you should do. It doesn't matter where Coopers Court or Little Hartham is, just call the police. The problem will only continue, if only you continue to let them cause it. There is no shame in calling the police at any time, be-it early hour or day, to remove any drunk person shouting abuse. And keep calling them, until your problem goes away!!
Reply ID 24581
Dear Fashion Victim I could not agree more! I live locally and have called the police many times in respect of this problem to no avail - you should send an email to lesley.o'connell at herts.pnn.police.uk She is the PCSO and covers anti-social behaviour. Having said that there used to be similar problems up near Castle Hall which they managed to prevent by gating it off. These people are absolute morons and when you consider that the primary source of the problem - The Stone House is trying to extend its license, it is a worry. If you want to object to the Stone House who have a license hearing soon then you can e-mail paul.newman at eastherts.gov.uk If you have a complaint about noise pollution then you can e-mail chris.kitts at eastherts.gov.uk and he is very helpful. I hope this helps! perhaps the Council need to be embarrassed into action so we can take Hertford back from the idiots!
Reply ID 24582
Just a slight error Oldcross in that Lesley is the Town Centre Community Officer and Maria Fernandez is the PCSO. However both are part of the Hertford Community Team. I believe there was and maybe still is a Residents Association for Coopers Court; one of the reps used to attend the Folly island Residents association meetings, of which I was chairman up until 2 years ago. The only way to attack this problem is to complain to the police either as an individual (which is better) or through the group. That way you get a log number. The police respond to log numbers; the more they have from a specific area the more it rises up the league table of areas to address. This is what happened on the Island during my term. Eventually there were so many logs about anti-social behaviour there was a police blitz including video cars. It seems to me of late that the island is getting a bit quieter on Friday nights. This could be due to the displacement theory. If the kids know that they are going to get moved on from one area they will move to another. So, it seems you are flavour of the month. A few years back residents on Old Cross Wharf were similarly concerned about the activities on Little Hartham so it might be worthwhile someone from Coopers court contacting them as well to provide a united front to the problem. I did have a few contact names and numbers and if you want to contact me through my profile will try and locate them for you. In short you have to bully the police to bully the bullies.
Reply ID 24600
Thanks Guys, I took your advice and I emailed Leslie O'Connell. This is the CRAP reply that I got.... Message I am sorry to hear you have been experiencing difficulties. This is not a new situation, but seems to be perenial, affected by seasons, as we are now entering the autumn already, the problem may self-sooth. However, so that we can effectively police this area at the relevant and appropriate times, we would be grateful for calls to our control room at the time of the problem, you can contact us on 0845 33 00 222. This would record the times and accurately give police time to respond and deal. It may be if we catch any main offenders then we will be more effective. Thanks for your help and support Thanks to Old Cross, I live at Old Cross Wharf [;)] so maybe we can bombard their switchboard tonight, when we get all the noise etc.... I also sent a letter to the council last week re: The Stone House.
Reply ID 24601
quote:The reply seems reasonable to me. What were you expecting?
Originally posted by Fashion Victim
Thanks Guys, I took your advice and I emailed Leslie O'Connell. This is the CRAP reply that I got.... Message I am sorry to hear you have been experiencing difficulties. This is not a new situation, but seems to be perenial, affected by seasons, as we are now entering the autumn already, the problem may self-sooth. However, so that we can effectively police this area at the relevant and appropriate times, we would be grateful for calls to our control room at the time of the problem, you can contact us on 0845 33 00 222. This would record the times and accurately give police time to respond and deal. It may be if we catch any main offenders then we will be more effective. Thanks for your help and support Thanks to Old Cross, I live at Old Cross Wharf [;)] so maybe we can bombard their switchboard tonight, when we get all the noise etc.... I also sent a letter to the council last week re: The Stone House.
Reply ID 24604
Its a pretty lame response. PCSO's are meant to engage with and improve the community, and are very well rewarded for doing so. We all pay a large amount of council tax and a large slice of that goes to policing Hertford - we deserve more than a standard inane response which adds no value whatsoever. The route cause is a dark area of land slap bang in the middle of a residential area and I am sure that if you had heard some moron urinating in the river for the 100th time at 2AM Ewoowar then you might see the response as dissapointing. Nothing good there happens after dark, except when one of the drunken clowns fell in the river a few weeks ago! had to be rescued by 2 police cars, an ambulance and 2 fire engines at our expense!
Reply ID 24605
I'd also like to add that we have called the police, many, many times before..... and to top it all, the switchboard just rings and rings and rings! I assume all the police are in stevenage and not in Hertford! Old Cross, not only do they p8ss in the river, but we also notice puke all over the decking the otherday and a family were over there with their children trying to feed the ducks/swans whilst trying to avoid the puke. I feel like a right old nag but with a baby on the way we have to try and get this resolved.
Reply ID 24606
What happens over there drags Hertford down into the gutter and having had what can diplomatically be called "dialogue" with the idiots causing the problem can deduce they are not locals and the typical clientele of Da Stone Owse! Its time the police and the council started to earn their keep as we are getting a very poor service for a very high price.
Reply ID 24607
quote:Seems fine to me. What sort of a response were you expecting?
Originally posted by Fashion Victim
Thanks Guys, I took your advice and I emailed Leslie O'Connell. This is the CRAP reply that I got.... Message I am sorry to hear you have been experiencing difficulties. This is not a new situation, but seems to be perenial, affected by seasons, as we are now entering the autumn already, the problem may self-sooth. However, so that we can effectively police this area at the relevant and appropriate times, we would be grateful for calls to our control room at the time of the problem, you can contact us on 0845 33 00 222. This would record the times and accurately give police time to respond and deal. It may be if we catch any main offenders then we will be more effective. Thanks for your help and support Thanks to Old Cross, I live at Old Cross Wharf [;)] so maybe we can bombard their switchboard tonight, when we get all the noise etc.... I also sent a letter to the council last week re: The Stone House.
Reply ID 24612
I agree with Old cross .. what a lame 'spun' response. What it really means is that, 'we've noted your complaint, no one will be sent to solve the problem, but someone will turn up with a 'Victim Support' leaflet if things turn really nasty'. Just the words 'Self-Sooth' make my skin crawl. Why can't a bobby or two on the beat go down there and make a physical presence and actually speak to the people in question and warn them about their anti social behaviour???, that way, they will think twice about going there next week and the police would have served their purpose in enforcing the law of the land? ... This country really is a soft sickening place to live sometimes.
Reply ID 24613
There are one or two solutions which might work but in the case of the first, only if a significant number of afffected residents participate. You need a network of phone numbers to call and for all participants to be able to react at short notice. When said youths pitch up and begin to act unsociably, the aforementioned residents come out from their properties and simply stand and watch. No confrontation, no engaging in talk despite the temptation to but just stand there watching. The logic behind it is that it can be very offputting to to be watched constantly. It does seem surreal to be standing watching silently (almost a scene from a sci-fi movie!) but it may have a deterrent effect. I can't claim the idea as my own so don't shoot the messenger, but I have heard it's worked in other areas. The other idea which I'm sure I saw on TV some time back is to install, out of reach (obviously!), a high audio frequency generator. This works on the basis that the older we get the less suceptible we are to high notes whereas younger people can hear them. I don't know how loud it would have to be but when tested for a teatime local news item on TV the young volunteers reported it being sufficently annoying for them to want to move away from the immediate area. Sorry I can't provide more detail but memory fails (I'm at the age when the frequencies wouldn't affect me anymore, heh heh!!). Hope this helps.
Reply ID 24621
quote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/content/articles/2006/04/04/mosquito_sound_wave_feature.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/content/articles/2006/04/04/mosquito_sound_wave_feature.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/content/articles/2006/04/04/mosquito_sound_wave_feature.shtml
Originally posted by 60sDJ
The other idea which I'm sure I saw on TV some time back is to install, out of reach (obviously!), a high audio frequency generator. This works on the basis that the older we get the less suceptible we are to high notes whereas younger people can hear them. I don't know how loud it would have to be but when tested for a teatime local news item on TV the young volunteers reported it being sufficently annoying for them to want to move away from the immediate area. Sorry I can't provide more detail but memory fails (I'm at the age when the frequencies wouldn't affect me anymore, heh heh!!). Hope this helps.
Reply ID 24623
As has already been mentioned in this discussion, policing is intelligence led. This means that our resources are allocated based on the information that we receive. The reason therefore that Folly Island has not seen the police present that you believe it warrants is because we have not been told there is a problem until now. I have looked at the logs that we have received in the last 3 months for Folly Island relating to antisocial behaviour, drunkenness and noise nuisance. There is 1 log for a male falling in the river, 1 for damage to cars, and 1 for antisocial behaviour and drunkenness in Coopers Court – this log was received at the beginning of June. We do not have the resources to spend every Friday and Saturday night patrolling Folly Island. This is why we need you to call in when an incident is taking place, on 0845 3300222, so that resources can be routed to deal. This will also help when looking at long-term solutions to the problem. East Herts Council will need proof that there is a problem before they will spend money on gating off areas etc. If you call on the above mentioned number a log will be created that stays on our system forever so that the extent of the problem is highlighted. I will spend time on Folly Island when I am on duty and ask my colleagues to pay attention as well but I need to know what sort of time the problems are occurring. If anyone would like to talk to me further then please either email me on alison.hutchin(at)herts.pnn.police.uk or call me on 01992 533535 (obviously I am out of the office patrolling most of the time so leave a message and I will get back to you). Regards, Alison Hutchin PCSO Bengeo and Pinehurst Ward Format of email address edited by Admin to prevent harvesting by spammers
Reply ID 24624
3 calls in three months. that's loads. It must be a terrible problem.[;)]
Reply ID 24675
I am shocked to read that only 3 complaints have been made and the last complaint was in June. I have made between 15-20 complaints since April and have a phone bill to back this up. So it's obviously between 11pm - 3am, no one actually logs the calls on the database. Also on Saturday night around 2am, people had congregated again, pi*sed up and being loud, so I called the number that was provided in my recent email and guess what.....no answer!! As for people on here taking the p*ss about us complaining, come and spend the weekend at mine, we will do a house swap. You will then understand, so if you are not being sympathetic, why post a reply???
Reply ID 24679
quote:As well as standing outside watching them, if everyone phoned the police, the number of calls logged would help persuade senior officers to allocate resource to sort the problem out.
Originally posted by 60sDJ
There are one or two solutions which might work but in the case of the first, only if a significant number of afffected residents participate. You need a network of phone numbers to call and for all participants to be able to react at short notice. When said youths pitch up and begin to act unsociably, the aforementioned residents come out from their properties and simply stand and watch. No confrontation, no engaging in talk despite the temptation to but just stand there watching. The logic behind it is that it can be very offputting to to be watched constantly. It does seem surreal to be standing watching silently (almost a scene from a sci-fi movie!) but it may have a deterrent effect. I can't claim the idea as my own so don't shoot the messenger, but I have heard it's worked in other areas. The other idea which I'm sure I saw on TV some time back is to install, out of reach (obviously!), a high audio frequency generator. This works on the basis that the older we get the less suceptible we are to high notes whereas younger people can hear them. I don't know how loud it would have to be but when tested for a teatime local news item on TV the young volunteers reported it being sufficently annoying for them to want to move away from the immediate area. Sorry I can't provide more detail but memory fails (I'm at the age when the frequencies wouldn't affect me anymore, heh heh!!). Hope this helps.
Reply ID 24682
Well as someone who personally has made significantly more than 3 calls to an 01992 number I understood to be Hertford police(Which redirects to a call centre in WGC) then I am very surprised. These incidents are clearly not being logged! Fashion Victim you should try and call them today to log your complaint and get a reference number, as that is how they allocate resources.
Reply ID 24684
quote:Next time you call ask for a log number. And the number I use is 01992 533000 - I always ask for the Hertford Control Room.
Originally posted by OldCross
Well as someone who personally has made significantly more than 3 calls to an 01992 number I understood to be Hertford police(Which redirects to a call centre in WGC) then I am very surprised. These incidents are clearly not being logged!
Reply ID 24688
If the police allocated it's time and resources in patroling the streets instead of spending time noting down telephone calls, then it wouldn't take 100 calls before anyone went down there to look. It doesn't take a mensa member to work out that If there is a visible police presence on the streets, there wouldn't be as much crime and antisocial behaviour. Why have the police become a 'reactive' force rather than a 'proavtive & prevention force? can any member of the force answer this question without giving-out 'spin' learnt at a media training course?
Reply ID 24689
quote:Easy to snipe isn't it. I don't think anything the police can say will change your negative and cynical attitude.
Originally posted by azzza
If the police allocated it's time and resources in patroling the streets instead of spending time noting down telephone calls, then it wouldn't take 100 calls before anyone went down there to look. It doesn't take a mensa member to work out that If there is a visible police presence on the streets, there wouldn't be as much crime and antisocial behaviour. Why have the police become a 'reactive' force rather than a 'proavtive & prevention force? can any member of the force answer this question without giving-out 'spin' learnt at a media training course?
Reply ID 24692
Sorry Steve ... my answer maybe negative and cynical, but I'm a realist.
Reply ID 24721
quote:I saw the item about the audio frequency generator that is only heard by younger ears. I have to own up and say it was on the Richard & Judy Show and I think it was possibly last Christmas. It was demonstrated on a group of young girls and has been installed outside some shops that have had persistent problems with kids hanging about and some shopping malls were looking at installing the devices. The girls on the show stated that whilst the noise didn't hurt, it was an uncomfortable sensation and made them want to move away. In these politically correct times, it will probably turn out to be the case that these devices can't be used as they will infringe the civil liberties of those wishing to inflict their oafish behaviour on you, it being the case that the perp's rights take precedence over the victim's. I suggest you contact Channel 4 who will no doubt be able to provide more information. Meanwhile, my sympathies regarding the noise problem. There is nothing more irritating and annoying than having to put up with other peoples' noise and nuisance. We have problems here at Tooth Brush Towers with noisy tenants (12am-3am+) and people coming home in the early hours who want everyone to know what a lovely time they've had getting off their faces on booze and God knows what else. Up until a year or so ago, a chief inspector (?) from Hertfordshire Police lived on this estate in the flats opposite ours. On the 3 occasions when I had to call the police because of noise and drunken fighting, the patrol cars were here in less than 3 minutes! Makes you wonder doesn't it?
Originally posted by 60sDJ
There are one or two solutions which might work but in the case of the first, only if a significant number of afffected residents participate. You need a network of phone numbers to call and for all participants to be able to react at short notice. When said youths pitch up and begin to act unsociably, the aforementioned residents come out from their properties and simply stand and watch. No confrontation, no engaging in talk despite the temptation to but just stand there watching. The logic behind it is that it can be very offputting to to be watched constantly. It does seem surreal to be standing watching silently (almost a scene from a sci-fi movie!) but it may have a deterrent effect. I can't claim the idea as my own so don't shoot the messenger, but I have heard it's worked in other areas. The other idea which I'm sure I saw on TV some time back is to install, out of reach (obviously!), a high audio frequency generator. This works on the basis that the older we get the less suceptible we are to high notes whereas younger people can hear them. I don't know how loud it would have to be but when tested for a teatime local news item on TV the young volunteers reported it being sufficently annoying for them to want to move away from the immediate area. Sorry I can't provide more detail but memory fails (I'm at the age when the frequencies wouldn't affect me anymore, heh heh!!). Hope this helps.
Reply ID 24734
It think that given this area is within walking distance of most of Hertford's bar and clubs and slap bang in the middle of a residential area that it would be reasonable to have a regular police patrol in this area, which could also cover the town centre. I think we need to apply a little common sense here.
Reply ID 24744
I noticed a mention of high frequency teenager repellents earlier. I'll add that to the one for dogs and cats. Has anybody got anything that works on old f**ts too? I'm planning world domination and benign dictatorship by bloodless means.
Reply ID 24833
I would feel incredibly offended if an audio frequency was used to make me leave a certain area. Not all "young people" or "youths" cause trouble around certain areas. When I leave the Stonehouse I walk through Hartham to get home and I have not noticed groups of people lingering and causing a lot of noise issues. I do not deny that these noise disturbances happened or still do but I believe that the whole issue is being used to generally condemn young persons as a whole who choose to attend a particular establishment that is near a residential area.
Reply ID 24841
quote:I don't think it's about making people leave an area per se, it's about making people who are behaving antisocially leave an area. If those who congregate on Little Hartham just sat down quietly and had a drink without distrubing the local residents, I don't think there'd be the sort of complaints that you're seeing here.
Originally posted by wideload
I would feel incredibly offended if an audio frequency was used to make me leave a certain area.
Reply ID 24887
Go and buy yourself a starting pistol. Next time it happens, start shouting that you've had enough and you're going to shoot the *******s. Start shooting off the pistol. You will then get 6 months worth of police attention in one night.
Reply ID 24889
You'll probably also get 6 months at Her Majesty's Pleasure
Reply ID 24913
quote:I started this forum, and I am also only 26 years old, but the only people that are hanging around and causing grief are 'young' and I'd say between the ages of 18- 22, they more than likely still live at home with their parents and want to stay out longer. They should not be congregating in a residential area. If they want to stay out longer, the should bugger off to the park and sit right in the middle of it, so no one can here them!!!
Originally posted by wideload
I would feel incredibly offended if an audio frequency was used to make me leave a certain area. Not all "young people" or "youths" cause trouble around certain areas. When I leave the Stonehouse I walk through Hartham to get home and I have not noticed groups of people lingering and causing a lot of noise issues. I do not deny that these noise disturbances happened or still do but I believe that the whole issue is being used to generally condemn young persons as a whole who choose to attend a particular establishment that is near a residential area.
Reply ID 24915
Also I've been thinking about a Paint Gun with red paint [;)], hee hee!
Reply ID 24917
If one of these "mosquito" devices was installed on private property within range of the trouble area then there is nothing anyone could do about it, as they are perfectly legal. And as they retail at £500 does anyone want to chip in, could be a great investment! [;)] Saying that it would also be nice to see a police car/presence occasionally!
Reply ID 24967
quote:Possibly, but hardly ethical. Presumably it would annoy legitimate young users of the area as well and young neighbours.
Originally posted by OldCross
If one of these "mosquito" devices was installed on private property within range of the trouble area then there is nothing anyone could do about it, as they are perfectly legal.
Reply ID 24993
quote:I think that the idea is to switch it on as and when required rather than to leave it humming all day, every day?
Presumably it would annoy legitimate young users of the area as well and young neighbours.
Reply ID 25030
Some of these solutions (and I note who suggested the "audio generator") seem quite extreme to me. Would there not be more sense in encouraging these young people to engage in a meaningful hobby from which they can derive skill and experience? I feel it's a combination of boredom and the dreaded alcohol that fuels these antisocial acts.
Reply ID 25036
quote:Whoaa there Landy Lad....do I detect a note of disapproval?? (It'll do you good!) It's not a violent solution, in fact if you read my posting I advise no confrontation at all. Maybe you're fortunate to live somewhere very quiet and can slumber peacefully until interrupted by the Police Chopper on a 2.30 a.m. mission, but some of the folk subjected to the gross " I don't give a ****** about you" attitude from the 2 brain cell delinquents would love to have a peaceful night too. The device would only be used when needed. Er, would you want to risk suggesting a meaningful hobby to them? Don't venture out to suggest it when they stink of Chavs Lager or even when they're sober (if ever) because I think you'd be in for a culture shock. I suspect you lead a more sheltered life than some - no criticism you understand but be careful! (Phew...)
Originally posted by Landy
Some of these solutions (and I note who suggested the "audio generator") seem quite extreme to me. Would there not be more sense in encouraging these young people to engage in a meaningful hobby from which they can derive skill and experience? I feel it's a combination of boredom and the dreaded alcohol that fuels these antisocial acts.
Reply ID 25082
Small problem:- These devices are not designed for short term intermittent use, taking some while to have an effect. They are intended for overnight use in unpopulated and unmanned shopping precincts and car parks. Using them would make the user a nuisance and there is a possibility of a successful claim of assault if incorrectly installed or used. Living in a quiet area is not luck, but choice. Town center dwelling has distinct advantages, but also penalties. I choose to live where it's buzzing and noisy, but I could buy a quieter location at the same money.
Reply ID 25114
quote:
Originally posted by shunt
Small problem:- These devices are not designed for short term intermittent use, taking some while to have an effect. They are intended for overnight use in unpopulated and unmanned shopping precincts and car parks. Using them would make the user a nuisance and there is a possibility of a successful claim of assault if incorrectly installed or used. Living in a quiet area is not luck, but choice. Town center dwelling has distinct advantages, but also penalties. I choose to live where it's buzzing and noisy, but I could buy a quieter location at the same money. Please, I don't mean to be offensive, but could you spell "centre" the correct way
Reply ID 25125
I believe the thread on spelling is elsewhere, but since I was humble enough to go off topic to apologise to all earlier another thread, I guess I started it. Please, you correctly identified the word, do not try to score points.
Reply ID 25126
quote:
Originally posted by shunt
I believe the thread on spelling is elsewhere, but since I was humble enough to go off topic in another thread to apologise to all, I guess I started it. Please, you correctly identified the word, do not try to score points.
Reply ID 25137
Now to add to the late night nuisance you'll have the day time nuisance of a supermarket superstore being constructed on your doorstep along with the drillers/diggers and juggernauts.[}:)]
Reply ID 25139
quote:That's just wicked Sloop! Luckily, we know the original post to be from a 26 year old, so unlikely to suffer a seizure by being teased.
Originally posted by sloopjohnb
Now to add to the late night nuisance you'll have the day time nuisance of a supermarket superstore being constructed on your doorstep along with the drillers/diggers and juggernauts.[}:)]
Reply ID 25248
quote:60sDJ, I would think that any instrument or action which causes inconvenience or irritation to others could be seen as an affront to their person, or violating their comfort, ergo a form of violence. Also as has been mentioned by shunt if incorrectly fitted it could be cause for complaint. I favour a clear and frank exchange of views impressing upon those whom you feel are causing you inconvenience that they may wish to consider your feelings and reach a compromise. Incidentally you refer to this device as an "audio generator" in fact you would be more accurate in regarding it as the "Mosquito Ultrasonic Teenage Deterent". It is a weapon in a sense with the ability to cause discomfort maybe even pain if used too near sensitive hearing, no less dangerous than some armament firing bullets which don't kill!
Originally posted by 60sDJquote:Whoaa there Landy Lad....do I detect a note of disapproval?? (It'll do you good!) It's not a violent solution, in fact if you read my posting I advise no confrontation at all. Maybe you're fortunate to live somewhere very quiet and can slumber peacefully until interrupted by the Police Chopper on a 2.30 a.m. mission, but some of the folk subjected to the gross " I don't give a ****** about you" attitude from the 2 brain cell delinquents would love to have a peaceful night too. The device would only be used when needed. Er, would you want to risk suggesting a meaningful hobby to them? Don't venture out to suggest it when they stink of Chavs Lager or even when they're sober (if ever) because I think you'd be in for a culture shock. I suspect you lead a more sheltered life than some - no criticism you understand but be careful! (Phew...)
Originally posted by Landy
Some of these solutions (and I note who suggested the "audio generator") seem quite extreme to me. Would there not be more sense in encouraging these young people to engage in a meaningful hobby from which they can derive skill and experience? I feel it's a combination of boredom and the dreaded alcohol that fuels these antisocial acts.
Reply ID 25278
They are perfectly legal and do not do any damage, anyone trying to claim for assault would be wasting their time. Phone Masts are much more invasive, and operate on a frequency, not far removed from the frequency at which the brain operates - I dont recall anyone bringing a succesful claim against Vodafone for assault?
Reply ID 25285
I am unable to hear a vodaphone mast (not without a handset, that is), making it impossible to either prove discomfort from it or the deliberate intention to cause discomfort. These sonic weapons are intended to cause discomfort, albeit mild discomfort. The installation of one to cover a public area, by a private individual, would constitute assault with an offensive weapon. Actual bodily harm is not required for this lesser charge to be valid. A phone tower, even if it did make noise, would not be assault, because there is no intent.
Reply ID 25311
Im sorry but you are talking sheer nonsense. If you cant hear something then it cant hurt you - was your point. There have been many studies to suggest that phone masts, which emit radiation have caused brain tumours and other cancers such as leukaemia, although I take your point that you cant hear them. A device that prevents anti-social behaviour and is non-invasive you class as assault. Yet decent people are forced to hear screaming, swearing, urinating and defecating within their homes and cannot take indirect action. You sound like a human rights lawyer, wallowing in the neverending pit of legal aid - funded by the decent taxpayer. I suggest you look at the broad context of the discussion in future rather than picking up on an individual point.
Reply ID 25312
So let me get this straight! we started off talking about how to move on annoying noisy people, and we have moved on to discussing if a noise generator is an offensive weapon. Surely it is up to the individual to decide what is offensive. by which i mean: 1.the starter of this thread finds the noise and other acts by these people to be offensive, now i think we are all pretty much agreed that what they do is offensive! 2. if a noise generator is used to get rid of them (and im not saying that i agree or not with that idea)then let them make a complaint. as we now know that the police only react to complaints made, I think we would find that you would be safe enough to use one!! (I can imagine a Pi**ed up idiot phoning the police to say " I think someone assaulted me without hitting me whilst i was puking through their letterbox!!)" I could go on but hopefully everyone gets my drift. BTW has anybody thought about using Claymores?
Reply ID 25316
Thank you Mick - the voice of common sense at last! The idea of mines is tempting. Then again with the river there its only a matter of time before an idiot falls in, hurts themselves and sues the council, which may force them to take ownership of the issue.
Reply ID 25318
quote:If someone gets wazzed and falls in the river, how is it the council's fault? If the same person were to wander into the road and get knocked down when wazzed, would it be Herts Highways fault?
Originally posted by OldCross
...its only a matter of time before an idiot falls in, hurts themselves and sues the council, which may force them to take ownership of the issue.
Reply ID 25325
quote:No that wasn't my point and phone masts are an entirely irrelevent one to make in this topic. Read again. "Intent" is the important word. I'm a "decent taxpayer", who abides by the law, rather than taking, possibly illegal, vigilante action. I am also someone who avoids using insulting and judgemental statements about other people's views, professions without first assessing what they might be. Yes, I do uphold human rights. You presumably prefer an alternative society, but then thanks to broader-minded persons like myself, that opinion is your right.
Originally posted by OldCross
Im sorry but you are talking sheer nonsense. If you cant hear something then it cant hurt you - was your point. There have been many studies to suggest that phone masts, which emit radiation have caused brain tumours and other cancers such as leukaemia, although I take your point that you cant hear them. A device that prevents anti-social behaviour and is non-invasive you class as assault. Yet decent people are forced to hear screaming, swearing, urinating and defecating within their homes and cannot take indirect action. You sound like a human rights lawyer, wallowing in the neverending pit of legal aid - funded by the decent taxpayer. I suggest you look at the broad context of the discussion in future rather than picking up on an individual point.
Reply ID 25328
quote:is that before or after he has fallen in the river, or has he dragged himself out, and is now wondering around dazed AND "wazzed" looking for medical attention for an injury that is to all intents and purposes his own fault and that he (or she) richly deserves!
Originally posted by Stevequote:If someone gets wazzed and falls in the river, how is it the council's fault? If the same person were to wander into the road and get knocked down when wazzed, would it be Herts Highways fault?
Originally posted by OldCross
...its only a matter of time before an idiot falls in, hurts themselves and sues the council, which may force them to take ownership of the issue.
Reply ID 25329
quote:Sorry are you now saying that the only way you can prosecute an offence is if you can prove intent??? If that where the case you would not be able to secure a conviction under any of the safety at work laws! someone installing a sound generator wouldnt be doing so with the intent of causing actual bodily harm (or, before you rebutt that, any other criminal act) they would merely be seeking a good nights sleep! BTW i still err on the side of Claymores[}:)]
Originally posted by shunt
I am unable to hear a vodaphone mast (not without a handset, that is), making it impossible to either prove discomfort from it or the deliberate intention to cause discomfort. These sonic weapons are intended to cause discomfort, albeit mild discomfort. The installation of one to cover a public area, by a private individual, would constitute assault with an offensive weapon. Actual bodily harm is not required for this lesser charge to be valid. A phone tower, even if it did make noise, would not be assault, because there is no intent.
Reply ID 25339
Safety at work is also irrellavent as that is not assault either. You cannot assault someone accidentally or through negligence.
Reply ID 25340
quote:Depends on the crime you are trying to convict on. Many convictions would have to show "mens rea" which is a criminal intent. This doesn't apply to legislation such health & safety legislation, whereby ignorance is not a defence.
Originally posted by Mad Mick Sorry are you now saying that the only way you can prosecute an offence is if you can prove intent???
Reply ID 25341
Very good points on both counts, but i notice you only comment on the first part of my post and not the actual nub of the matter?
Reply ID 25343
Though nobody would argue that this is a problem which needs a solution, resorting to a possible criminal act, is not the answer, whether by claymores or electronic means. For one thing it waters down the original complaint's validity, i.e. the infringement of your rights.
Reply ID 25347
I know what you mean, but reading back through this thread, there doesnt seem to be an answer without resorting to some kind of action. I know im off topic a bit by mentioning it but i had cause to call the police earlier this year and was told "we are too busy" what kind of feedback does that give people? I appreciate they get busy (although not sure about at 2am on a wednesday morning!!) and i am not in the habit of having a go at the police, However there simply has to be something that can be done more quickly than what has so far been suggested here!
Reply ID 25348
Shunt This technology is perfectly legal so as someone "who abides by the law" you should not object to it being used. And what is the difference between a "decent taxpayer" and a taxpayer.
Reply ID 25352
If you noticed that "decent taxpayer" was in quotation marks and in response to the inference that I was not "decent" and presumed to be sponging of "taxpayers" because someone didn't agree with what I said. The technology is legal, just as a claymore is, dependent on how it it used. Apt in what way? Shunt is my real name, unlike most anonymous handles. Feel free to embarrass yourself in attempting to use it to insult me Mr. or Mrs. OldCross.
Reply ID 25355
Shunt I think you have missed the entire point of this thread. It is easy to object to something for the sake of objection. I am a balanced person who objects to my privacy being violated by people with no regard for others and yet I am being painted as the enemy in the way that the criminal justice system has shifted the role of the "victim" from the wronged to the criminal. In short, I feel sorry for you.
Reply ID 25356
No you are not being criminalised. My argument is an attempt to protect you from having the tables turned on you by these people and ensuring that, whatever the solution, it solves your problem without giving you more. Of course you have a right to not be disturbed in this way, but as frustrating as the, seemingly inadequate, means currently available are, do not let your anger lead you to actions which may not be in your best interests. Find a way to use the system. It'll beat you otherwise. Meanwhile, I hope you have a peaceful weekend and if you don't, log every complaint and get a reference number and name each time you call.
Reply ID 25359
Shunt (and everybody else!!) I THINK you will find that even posession of a claymore is very much illegal in this country, no matter what you intend to do with it. (its main use of course being to maim the enemy not kill them as maiming uses more of the enemys' resources) and it was a joke. sorry!
Reply ID 25361
You may keep such an item as a display piece, hammer down lumps in the lawn with it, tenderise a piece of steak. It becomes illegal the moment it is used, or intended to be used as a weapon. Screwed firmly to a wall, perhaps is safest? It'll look awful, but it won't get you arrested!
Reply ID 25364
I dont think i'll bother trying thanks! A live APM is not going to gain favour should i get an unexpected visit from her majestys finest!
Reply ID 25390
quote:Sorry - APM?? Wos dat? Correction, for the benefit of the spelling pedants on this forum - could one of you gentle people please explain the meaning of APM?? Anti Prat Mechanism maybe??
Originally posted by Mad Mick
I dont think i'll bother trying thanks! A live APM is not going to gain favour should i get an unexpected visit from her majestys finest!
Reply ID 25394
Hoping that the explanation will get the topic back to its original intention. Judging by my knowledge of computer games as opposed to military interest I believe APM to stand for Anti Personnel Mine.
Reply ID 25395
quote:This topic has evolved somewhat from the point at which I suggested the audio generator. Landy immediately disagreed with it suggesting it was a weapon of sorts, no better than an armament firing bullets that don't kill. Ok then, as we're into surrealism dealing with the "Little Hartham Problem" let's consider the use of say, rubber bullets as once employed in Northern Aaarland (sorry, using local pronounciation). There'd be two or three World War 2 anti-aircraft batteries suitably positioned in Little Hartham, manned by determined residents. Instead of pointing skywards along with their accompanying (and massive) searchlights they'd be aimed horizontally with their crews ready to feed endless rounds of rubber bullets to deal with marauding Asbo-ites. Imagine the scene as if from a wartime film, black & white of course. (Sound effects: Muffled "boom, boom, boom" of the anti-asbo-ite batteries) "Evening George, busy night" "Yes Cyril, clear skies tonight. Got quite a few of the blighters coming in from the South East". "I say, had HQ on the blower, said to tell you Jolly Good Show". "We'll show 'em, eh? What?" "Indeed. Fancy a cuppa Old Man?" "I'll say!!. Will the rations stretch?" "I should think so" (Cue: Land of Hartham and Glory).
Originally posted by wideload
Hoping that the explanation will get the topic back to its original intention. Judging by my knowledge of computer games as opposed to military interest I believe APM to stand for Anti Personnel Mine.