Topic ID 2004
My husband was in Hertford tonight at 7.30 and saw traffic wardens taking pictures of the number plates of the cars parked in the centre of Hertford. What is going on?? this has nothing to do with traffic management, this has everything to do with earning money.[:(!]
Reply ID 26242
quote:Are you saying they were ticketing cars that were committing no offence?
Originally posted by wizkid
My husband was in Hertford tonight at 7.30 and saw traffic wardens taking pictures of the number plates of the cars parked in the centre of Hertford. What is going on?? this has nothing to do with traffic management, this has everything to do with earning money.[:(!]
Reply ID 26243
Where were the cars? Were the photo's specifically of the number plates or of the vehicle in-situation (assumedly as the object of a parking misdemeanour)? Otherwise it's automotive voyeurism. I live plumb in the centre of town and, believe it or not, haven't personally experienced a degeneration of my own parking experience since the new regime was instilled. Of course this may be because I don't have to drive into town.
Reply ID 26246
Private Clamping company? The vehicles were probably parked on a private piece of land which is now the norm for clampers. Don't panic everyone - traffic wardens are home in bed watching re-runs of The Bill on UK Gold.
Reply ID 26249
Hmmm. UK Gold is currently showing an evening of 'Open All Hours'. Berbatov is a double-agent me thinks.
Reply ID 26253
I believe the wardens are on duty up to 9pm
Reply ID 26263
It may be the the numberplates themselves. The instance of illegal spacing and fancy fonts on numberplates has become epidemic. Or, it maybe a commissioned survey of some type. I'm not aware of parking attendants carrying cameras as normal equipment. Were the cars parked legally? I'm assuming so, or there would be reason to make the original comment.
Reply ID 26264
quote:I think they all carry cameras.
Originally posted by shunt
It may be the the numberplates themselves. The instance of illegal spacing and fancy fonts on numberplates has become epidemic. Or, it maybe a commissioned survey of some type. I'm not aware of parking attendants carrying cameras as normal equipment. Were the cars parked legally? I'm assuming so, or there would be reason to make the original comment.
Reply ID 26266
If you are legally parked you have nothing to worry about.
Reply ID 26269
All the traffic wardens carry a digital camera to photograph the car's they have ticketed!
Reply ID 26272
so they have photographic proof of an (alledged) infraction if the victim/offender chooses to challenge the ticket. I have found that taking your own photographs helps in getting a ticket overturned (wheel just touching a while line, for example). They're out in force in the evening if unless it is raining, then they are nowhere to be seen.
Reply ID 26276
Apologies if this has been punted before but http://www.appealnow.com/ offers some interesting advice on parking tickets
Reply ID 26287
quote:Interesting reading, particularly the "Awards" section....
Originally posted by Herbert Lemons
Apologies if this has been punted before but http://www.appealnow.com/ offers some interesting advice on parking tickets
Reply ID 26297
quote:...and particularly for Hertford, where so much of the marking and signage is legally challengable. Next time you walk into town, check it out. There are many unenforcible patches.[}:)]
Originally posted by farrowandfarrowquote:Interesting reading, particularly the "Awards" section....
Originally posted by Herbert Lemons
Apologies if this has been punted before but http://www.appealnow.com/ offers some interesting advice on parking tickets
Reply ID 26530
Wizkid? You've gone quiet. Were they ticketing wrongly parked cars?
Reply ID 26536
Perhaps Wizkid has been silenced?! [:0]
Reply ID 28883
As another person who has witnessed the wardens zeal late at night, including Friday night, their reason for being there must necessarily be monetary as they can't possibly be being paid at the normal rates at these times. Yes all the cars they target are committing an offence, though many are probably unaware that they are doing so, unless they provide torches to light up the signage. Is anyone aware at what time in the evening single yellow lines cease to carry a fine, or are they 24 hours?
Reply ID 28884
Most single yellow lines in Hertford are OK to park on after 6pm - but I suggest checking each individual sign so as not to be caught out!
Reply ID 28886
quote:In the majority of cases, its not hard to realise when you are parking illegally. It doesn't need a sign, or torch. The common offences are cars parked on pedestrian walkways, double yellow lines etc. Round Shire hall seems to be popular too, but the street lighting allows you to read the signs without a problem. Where were the people parking you were refering to?
Originally posted by locutus
As another person who has witnessed the wardens zeal late at night, including Friday night, their reason for being there must necessarily be monetary as they can't possibly be being paid at the normal rates at these times. Yes all the cars they target are committing an offence, though many are probably unaware that they are doing so, unless they provide torches to light up the signage. Is anyone aware at what time in the evening single yellow lines cease to carry a fine, or are they 24 hours?
Reply ID 28887
Most of the activity was aroung Shire Hall though they were also on Maidenhead Street, Bull Plain and Fore Street. As I said most will have been parking incorrectly , but if they really wanted to gaurantee that cars did not park illegally simply double yellow line the main areas. Then we wouldn't need to have a mini army of wardens touring the town on a friday night
Reply ID 28888
The traffic wardens originally started working until 9pm on Friday & Saturday purely to keep the new Fore St taxi rank clear of private cars. All 3 of them patrol together to avoid any trouble - when they first started they had a police escort. The area around Shire Hall, Maidenhead St & Birchley Green are all no parking at any time if you read the signs, so these areas are easy pickings for the wardens at night. With regard to the Fore St rank, the signs say no parking except taxis after 6pm any day of the week, so all private cars are fair game any night of the week! The wardens have been seen working Thursdays until 9pm recently to clear this rank, so that taxis aren't forced to double park outside Baroosh.
Reply ID 28894
quote:So one must assume from your post Locutus that you expect traffic wardens to work overtime for free because they just lurve their job! Reading between the lines in here I must conclude that the wardens were doing a proper job ticketing motorists who for one reason or another are breaking the law. In a town absolutely jammed with cars what on earth is wrong with that, or indeed the point of this thread? Wizkid has gone silent - (another Daily Mailer dissing an easy target??)
their reason for being there must necessarily be monetary as they can't possibly be being paid at the normal rates at these times.
Reply ID 28896
quote:As it would appear that the Traffic Wardens are attempting to keep the Fore Street taxi rank clear; can anyone explain why nothing is done about the taxis that are STILL allowed to double park alongside cars in the parking area outside Cafe Uno? These taxis cause obstruction and are surely parked illegally, yet the drivers aren't challenged, and, before anyone coments about them being able to pull away thereby not really causing an obstruction - has anyone ever tried to get one of them to move? It is also the case that taxis park across the cars that are parked in the marked bays in Bull Plain, and take very great exception to being asked to move in order to allow vehicles to pass. Surely 3 taxi ranks more than fulfil the town's requirements?
Originally posted by Moz
With regard to the Fore St rank, the signs say no parking except taxis after 6pm any day of the week, so all private cars are fair game any night of the week! The wardens have been seen working Thursdays until 9pm recently to clear this rank, so that taxis aren't forced to double park outside Baroosh.
Reply ID 28899
quote:As it would appear that the Traffic Wardens are attempting to keep the Fore Street taxi rank clear; can anyone explain why nothing is done about the taxis that are STILL allowed to double park alongside cars in the parking area outside Cafe Uno? These taxis cause obstruction and are surely parked illegally, yet the drivers aren't challenged, and, before anyone coments about them being able to pull away thereby not really causing an obstruction - has anyone ever tried to get one of them to move? [/quote] These taxis are not allowed to double park outside Baroosh, but do so as they can never get on to the Fore St rank because of all the unauthorised vehicles parked there, apart from Friday or Saturday night when it is marshalled. These taxis do frequently get moved on by the police. Most taxi drivers are fully aware they may be causing an obstruction sometimes & are prepared to move when anyone asks, however, there are rude & inconsiderate people in all walks of life & the taxi trade is no exception!
Originally posted by Whoopeedo
Reply ID 28962
Can anyone explain why there are never any traffic wardens up at Richard Hale beween 3pm to 4pm. Why do these mothers insist on parking there??? Are all their children disabled and couldn't possibly walk round the corner??? I told a traffic warden to get up there as if he wanted to reach his target he would have a field day. Obviously there is a back hander going on maybe one of the mums knows someone any any wardens caught giving out tickets will get sacked.
Reply ID 28971
It does seem to be the case that the poor old wardens get it in the neck even when they are simply doing their job.
Reply ID 29032
I've always wondered where the wardens park their own cars.
Reply ID 29070
My biggest complaint about the wardens is that they seem to swarm all over the town centre, especially the car parks. They are very strict on enforcing the letter of the law, and if you are late back to your car (even by just a few minutes) then you can almost guarantee a ticket. However in contrast some other parking problems are completely ignored. eg. Sele Farm, Richard Hale, Green Street Taxis. What is required is a random coverage throughout the day of all the different areas. A few randomly distributed tickets in the right locations would soon sort out the parking problems there. Also the decreased coverage in the car parks (where people have already had to pay for a ticket to park) would lead to less allegations of vitimisation, while still enforcing the current regulations in a sensible and efficient manor.
Reply ID 29166
If people have paid for a ticket in a car park and properly displayed it, no penalty notice will be issued. The letter of the law is rigidly applied in the interest of fairness and to prevent intimidation of attendants. If it were not applied thus, those drivers abiding by the rules would be subsidising those who don't. Who will pay extra so that others don't need to bother or overstay their ticket? Outlying areas are patrolled less because:- there is less need, it is harder to ensure the safety of operatives and it is more expensive. Police used to cover these areas as part of their beat, but that's another story. The public's attitude to traffic attendants is intimidating, loutish and derogatory on the whole. In this thread there have been complaints of them "pouncing" on cars illegally parked and many complaints about them doing precisely what they are employed to do. Frankly, I'm appalled by the attitude to wardens nationwide. If you have a problem with parking policy, take it up with your council. We get the service we deserve. I'm not sure we deserve anything!
Reply ID 29181
quote:Perhaps if like me (and several other residents down my street)you had been ticketed while legally parked and legally displaying resident parking permits your view might be a bit different. Admittedly the tickets were quashed on appeal, but you still had waste time and postage going through the procedure.
Originally posted by shunt
If people have paid for a ticket in a car park and properly displayed it, no penalty notice will be issued. The letter of the law is rigidly applied in the interest of fairness and to prevent intimidation of attendants. If it were not applied thus, those drivers abiding by the rules would be subsidising those who don't. Who will pay extra so that others don't need to bother or overstay their ticket? Outlying areas are patrolled less because:- there is less need, it is harder to ensure the safety of operatives and it is more expensive. Police used to cover these areas as part of their beat, but that's another story. The public's attitude to traffic attendants is intimidating, loutish and derogatory on the whole. In this thread there have been complaints of them "pouncing" on cars illegally parked and many complaints about them doing precisely what they are employed to do. Frankly, I'm appalled by the attitude to wardens nationwide. If you have a problem with parking policy, take it up with your council. We get the service we deserve. I'm not sure we deserve anything!
Reply ID 29185
quote:So somebody made a mistake. My point is that traffic attendants are not born with 666 birthmarks under their hair, they do not take on such an unpleasant and ridiculed job because they are evil. It's just a job, one which very few people want and is, for many, a last resort. The vast majority of complaints here are not about mistakes, but about them doing their job as instructed.
Originally posted by Ray_by_the_Beane Perhaps if like me (and several other residents down my street)you had been ticketed while legally parked and legally displaying resident parking permits your view might be a bit different. Admittedly the tickets were quashed on appeal, but you still had waste time and postage going through the procedure.
Reply ID 29196
quote:My complaint was that after they had made one of these mistakes my wife challenged the validity of the reason for the ticket and the parking attendant told her incorrect rules. Either the parking attendant made yet another mistake or they lied to avoid having to cancel the ticket. I know which one I believe.
Originally posted by shuntquote:So somebody made a mistake. My point is that traffic attendants are not born with 666 birthmarks under their hair, they do not take on such an unpleasant and ridiculed job because they are evil. It's just a job, one which very few people want and is, for many, a last resort. The vast majority of complaints here are not about mistakes, but about them doing their job as instructed.
Originally posted by Ray_by_the_Beane Perhaps if like me (and several other residents down my street)you had been ticketed while legally parked and legally displaying resident parking permits your view might be a bit different. Admittedly the tickets were quashed on appeal, but you still had waste time and postage going through the procedure.
Reply ID 29204
quote:Plainly the same mistake which led to the issuing of the ticket and the result of inadequate training. An attendant may not cancel a ticket once issued and he would have issued it believing it to be valid for the reasons stated to your wife. The assumption that your wife was deliberately lied to makes little sense. For what purpose?
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:My complaint was that after they had made one of these mistakes my wife challenged the validity of the reason for the ticket and the parking attendant told her incorrect rules. Either the parking attendant made yet another mistake or they lied to avoid having to cancel the ticket. I know which one I believe.
Originally posted by shuntquote:So somebody made a mistake. My point is that traffic attendants are not born with 666 birthmarks under their hair, they do not take on such an unpleasant and ridiculed job because they are evil. It's just a job, one which very few people want and is, for many, a last resort. The vast majority of complaints here are not about mistakes, but about them doing their job as instructed.
Originally posted by Ray_by_the_Beane Perhaps if like me (and several other residents down my street)you had been ticketed while legally parked and legally displaying resident parking permits your view might be a bit different. Admittedly the tickets were quashed on appeal, but you still had waste time and postage going through the procedure.
Reply ID 29208
quote:Okay........perhaps this will help you to understand.....below is the post I made in December last year regarding the incident.
Plainly the same mistake which led to the issuing of the ticket and the result of inadequate training. An attendant may not cancel a ticket once issued and he would have issued it believing it to be valid for the reasons stated to your wife. The assumption that your wife was deliberately lied to makes little sense. For what purpose?
Reply ID 29210
I had the same experience a Ewoowar's wife, but with a different outcome. The ticket was upheld on the technicality and it was explained that the warden was following instructions on the meter feeding rule. They are instructed to issue penalties where two tickets from the same day are displayed, without qualification. I did gain an admission that the rule was unclear and that there are some circumstances in which it penalises an innoccent parker, but no retraction of the penalty. I was also told (not by the attendant, but by letter) that it was my fault. However, I repeat, an attendant may not cancel a ticket once issued under any circumstances, even if he believes he has made a mistake. The rule needs amending for the benefit of attendants and public alike.
Reply ID 29226
Totally agree. I do sympathise with people who have been wrongly ticketed (I have myself once), but these errors represent a tiny minorty. Yet still, the public want to kill the wardens. Its like saying all the retailers in Hertford are rude, because the man in Out Of Town is. The thing is, the thread has not be born out of ticketing errors, but simply from someone who doesn't like the idea of wardens simply going about their job.
Reply ID 29313
Shunt, you appear to have missed my point further back. The traffic wardens only police the letter of the law in the town centre during their working hours. They don't bother coming up to Sele Farm and ticketing the drivers taking the P*** with their parking. The council keeps saying they need to increase revenue in order to pay for the wardens - but if the wardens were used more efficiently throughout east herts it might be worthwhile. You don't need to penalise every driver who breaks the rules to set a precedent. Unfortunately the only precedent that seems to be set by the wardens at the moment is "make sure you pay for more time than you think you need it the car parks, because if you are even the slightest bit late back you are guaranteed to be ticketed" Paying to park costs ~ 60p per hour A parking fine is £30 (if you pay fast) £30 / £0.60 = 50 Therfore if you want to not pay to park in a car park, you will be out of pocket if you get a PCN on more than 1 in 50 visits. In other words the council only needs to ticket 2% of offenders to break even! If you get ticketed 10% of the time you still wouldn't risk it. Imagine if there was a little black box in your car which recorded every time you went even slightly above the speed limit, and issued 3 penalty points for each of them Almost the entire population would lose their licences within a year.
Reply ID 29314
Hang on. Something I don't get here. How can they give you a parking ticket for having 2 car park stickers from different car parks on display inside your car?
Reply ID 29316
quote:....but is any of that the fault of the guy in the funny hat, who gets all the flack and insult? I think if you follow the gist of my posts across many threads, you will know I am definately not in favour of over regulation or a big brother state (Orwell's vision, not the channel 4 show). Traffic attendants are, and traffic wardens were, always a town centre facility, outlying parking violations being covered by police, if a driver was causing obstruction. Your comments on volume and finance adequately explain the answer to your own complaint. It isn't a cheap service and a half hour walk to Sele and back just isn't viable. Of course one could question why yellow lines have appeared in so many areas in which there was never any intention or history of enforcement. An un-enforced rule invites abuse and challenge, whereas no rule invites common sense.
Originally posted by jez_p
Shunt, you appear to have missed my point further back. The traffic wardens only police the letter of the law in the town centre during their working hours. They don't bother coming up to Sele Farm and ticketing the drivers taking the P*** with their parking. The council keeps saying they need to increase revenue in order to pay for the wardens - but if the wardens were used more efficiently throughout east herts it might be worthwhile. You don't need to penalise every driver who breaks the rules to set a precedent. Unfortunately the only precedent that seems to be set by the wardens at the moment is "make sure you pay for more time than you think you need it the car parks, because if you are even the slightest bit late back you are guaranteed to be ticketed" Paying to park costs ~ 60p per hour A parking fine is £30 (if you pay fast) £30 / £0.60 = 50 Therfore if you want to not pay to park in a car park, you will be out of pocket if you get a PCN on more than 1 in 50 visits. In other words the council only needs to ticket 2% of offenders to break even! If you get ticketed 10% of the time you still wouldn't risk it. Imagine if there was a little black box in your car which recorded every time you went even slightly above the speed limit, and issued 3 penalty points for each of them Almost the entire population would lose their licences within a year.
Reply ID 29318
If the service isn't cheap - why do we have so many wardens? The police have handed over parking to the council so the council is responsible for enforcing it. Perhaps now the police don't provide the cover then the percentage of my council tax required for this service should be re-allocated from the police to the new wardens. If the wardens are going to stay in the town centre then half of them need to be laid off to reduce overheads. Otherwise the wardens need to cover all of the yellow line sites. Not every day but occasionally to ensure that people don't abuse them.
Reply ID 29321
Jez, I'm kinda with you on this, but have a slightly different take on it. Being a contracted out service, the quantity of wardens is dependant on demand. If the public stopped getting tickets, there would be less revenue + lower costs = less wardens. Covering outlying areas more often would mean more wardens, higher tender by the contractors, less revenue. Council income down + cost of contract up = more council tax. Yellow lines are a pointless waste of paint if they are not enforced as are "access only" and all the other pointless restrictions people campaign for without really thinking what they are getting or how it's going to be monitored. There never used to be parking restrictions outside town centres. Adding them doesn't have any useful purpose, but is just a placebo for bleating residents. Eventually some group will successfully pressure for the "black box" which you mentioned too.
Reply ID 29359
Covering outlying areas at all would be a start. And Private contract having to make money just sums up the kind of b******s that public services are becoming.
Reply ID 29368
jez, you need to be more observant. The traffic wardens are up here EVERY day. It must be true as I got this repsonse from the council: Thank you for your email. According to records, no tickets have been issued here. I spoke to a Parking Supervisor who attended yesterday. He observed two vehicles but they moved off. I have requested Parking Attendants visit the road daily. If you would like to report vehicles in contravention, please contact me and I will send a mobile patrol. Then again, maybe it is a load of bull****. I've never seen them up here but see cars parked on the double yellows every time I go round the shops. How can the traffic wardens be so efficient in the town but so rubbish on Sele Farm?
Reply ID 29375
I got a 'tongue in cheek' apology when parked on private property (having previously beeing told by a warden it was OK) 2 other members of staff then got tickets which were not overturned even though the sent in the same documents as I did including the deeds, etc. and details of the owner of the building plus my copy of their excuse for an apology. How did I get off and they didn't? The person who makes the decision must have got out of the right side of the bed the morning I got 'let off' If they had a clear set of guidelines they all followed they may get more respect from the innocent motorists of us. I, when unfortunately getting a ticket for parking where I shouldn't immediately rang and paid but I wouldn't pay if legal just for a quite life.
Reply ID 29388
quote:You can always appeal to the National Parking Adjudication Service if you're unhappy with the response from EHDC http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk
Originally posted by Tigger
I got a 'tongue in cheek' apology when parked on private property (having previously beeing told by a warden it was OK) 2 other members of staff then got tickets which were not overturned even though the sent in the same documents as I did including the deeds, etc. and details of the owner of the building plus my copy of their excuse for an apology. How did I get off and they didn't? The person who makes the decision must have got out of the right side of the bed the morning I got 'let off' If they had a clear set of guidelines they all followed they may get more respect from the innocent motorists of us. I, when unfortunately getting a ticket for parking where I shouldn't immediately rang and paid but I wouldn't pay if legal just for a quite life.
Reply ID 29389
quote:As they admitted my fine was not valid I did not have to go down that route but I'm sure the others did and got no positive response despite asking the question why did I get off and they didn't when presenting the same evidence of Private Property.
Originally posted by Stevequote:You can always appeal to the National Parking Adjudication Service if you're unhappy with the response from EHDC http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk
Originally posted by Tigger
I got a 'tongue in cheek' apology when parked on private property (having previously beeing told by a warden it was OK) 2 other members of staff then got tickets which were not overturned even though the sent in the same documents as I did including the deeds, etc. and details of the owner of the building plus my copy of their excuse for an apology. How did I get off and they didn't? The person who makes the decision must have got out of the right side of the bed the morning I got 'let off' If they had a clear set of guidelines they all followed they may get more respect from the innocent motorists of us. I, when unfortunately getting a ticket for parking where I shouldn't immediately rang and paid but I wouldn't pay if legal just for a quite life.
Reply ID 29512
Saw two female attendants ticketing a double-parked van in Fore Street this afternoon. The driver returned as they were doing so and called them "a pair of fat slags" before driving off.
Reply ID 29515
quote:Out of interest, what wage would contributors to this forum accept to take such abuse as a regular part of their job?
Originally posted by Steve
Saw two female attendants ticketing a double-parked van in Fore Street this afternoon. The driver returned as they were doing so and called them "a pair of fat slags" before driving off.
Reply ID 29548
Having returned from the farside, I have read with interest the varying viewpoints on our noble traffic wardens ,who only seek to uphold the simple laws passed by our esteemed EHDC. They are the ones who seek to make our fair town car free. This will ensure that Hertford will not need its gallant band of hard working servants. I can speak from a position of understanding as to the life of a traffic warden, as my father was on, when he retired from the police force. He rarely issued tickets as he was not given a quota to fulfil. He managed to help to keep a busy northern town clear of wrongly parked cars by using diplomacy and evenhandedness. We do have more traffic nowadays, but wouldn't it be a happier town if the wardens were seen as supporters of the motorist ( which some of our members believe) and not aliens who are working for the unseen external company. Who in passing actually employs them .I'm sure it isn't EHDC.
Reply ID 29558
quote:£250k for me (a week!)
Originally posted by shuntquote:Out of interest, what wage would contributors to this forum accept to take such abuse as a regular part of their job?
Originally posted by Steve
Saw two female attendants ticketing a double-parked van in Fore Street this afternoon. The driver returned as they were doing so and called them "a pair of fat slags" before driving off.