Topic ID 2069
Copied across from Ugly's thread:
quote:- Landlords to endure capped rents on premises with X amount or below of customer accessible area. - Capped rent reviews for businesses who chose to continue their lease and stay in the same building. I know of someone in Hertford who had a 100% rent increase due to a new landlord and the arrival of their end of contract. - Landlords to pay punitive rent/rates to the council for every shop that is left empty AND fully updating and maintaining the building to a suitable standard - particularly in a listed building - encouraging them to let at a lower price. - Rates bills being 50% of the rentable value is feeding off the back of greedly landlords. Small businesses (based on a sliding scale of customer accessible square footage Vs annual income) should have a decent rent percentage. 10% ought to do it for start-ups. If the council wants the other 40% maybe they should charge the landlord, again encouraging landlords to reduce their rent. It all comes down to money. Landlords want it, council enjoys the piggy-backing income, small businesses go bust, empty town centres. Why work bloody hard just so you can pay the bills at work and not be able to pay those at home?
Originally posted by David Yates
Perhaps also it is time for a new thread for ideas on things that should and can be done in the town to end this stream of closing shops and businesses.
Reply ID 27501
Well said Mr P. I think there should be a shift from finding a shop owner to fining a landlord for each month that he or she fails to provide retail prosperity in the town centre. There should be a waiting list of retailers in this town, not a waiting list of greedy landlords!
Reply ID 30839
Methvens has a closing down sale on now ... a big loss for that end of town. Note from Admin: Please post as a separate topic
Reply ID 30845
The lessee remianing liable until the shop is re-let does seem unfair, but without it we would have many more temporary, fly-by-night traders. At least the current law should make sure would be traders have an incentive to have thought carefully about the long term viability of their business, before taking on a lease. Ultimately, as members of the public, there is only one thing we can do to help a small retail business to survive;- buy things from them. There is a glimmer of hope. As car usage and transport in general becomes more difficult, as a result of global warming measures, the local shops should re-gain the advantage they lost to out of town multiples.
Reply ID 30848
Losing a bookshop makes me particularly uncomfortable. It's not quite like burning books but it does feel a little like tearing a part of the intellectual soul from the Town. In fact I've just been to Methvens on my amble trhough Town and the shop is rammed full of punters. Perhaps Methvens should have had regular closing down sales then turnover would have been enough to maintain the viability of their business.
Reply ID 30849
I wonder how much bookshops such as Methvens suffer from Amazon. It is a real shame, I am really upset to see it go.
Reply ID 30851
Very sad to see Methvens going. Their stock levels upstairs have been very low for months, so I had been wondering if this was on the cards. The Amazon effect must be a problem for book stores, and the huge reductions on new paperbacks offered by supermarkets can't help. I can't see the Government bringing in legislation on the way landlords rent out their buildings (which would be the only way Mr P's suggestions could be enacted), and the reality is that they charge the rates they do because businesses continue to open in Hertford, so there's clearly the demand. Yes there's a turnover of businesses, but that's the same everywhere.
Reply ID 30852
quote:I too am sad to see Methvens go as they gave excellent service on the occasion I used them - and there's the point - its not a shop I would use regularly nor, I suspect, many other people. As commented earlier, the likes of Amazon are a serious threat. Even more so, for the standard top 20 paperbacks, Tesco's selling at around £3.70 against a cover price of £6/£7 is hard to ignore and Methvens were seldom close to matching that price unless it was a multiple buy offer. Another victim of cut price retailing [:(]
Originally posted by wizkid
I wonder how much bookshops such as Methvens suffer from Amazon. It is a real shame, I am really upset to see it go.
Reply ID 30876
How do we stop businesses from closing? Use them.
Reply ID 30903
I agree with Herbert Lemons about loss of intellectual soul. Methvens is a big favourite of mine and it will be a sad loss to Hertford. I often enjoy treating the kids to a book and a coffee at Serendipity. It's all very well Tesco selling books at £3.96, but they all tend to be the same thing - vacuous outpourings by some barely literate minor celebrity or yet another gruesome account of someone's childhood. WH Smiths isn't always that much better.
Reply ID 30910
quote:Not disagreeing for a moment - but all the same it presents a big sales opportunity and one that Methvens is not, traditionally, competitive in.
Originally posted by mangrovian
It's all very well Tesco selling books at £3.96, but they all tend to be the same thing - vacuous outpourings by some barely literate minor celebrity or yet another gruesome account of someone's childhood. WH Smiths isn't always that much better.
Reply ID 30911
If you wish to discuss the closure of Methven's, please post [url="http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=2239"]here[/url]. The subject of this thread is "How do we stop businesses from closing?"
Reply ID 30916
Sorry to be seen as controversial, (it's probably already too late for that) but surely the businesses in question can not keep trading if they are not viable. By not viable i mean nobody (or not enough) people want to use them. So if people dont want to use your service, what do you have to do? 1.Change the service being offered to one that people do want? 2.Lower prices? 3.Close down? If whats on offer isnt up to what people expect or require then you are onto a loser. Its as simple as that! (BTW im not talking specifically about any particular business here)
Reply ID 30919
I agree with Mick. If you're not offering what people want at a price they're prepared to pay, you're onto a loser.
Reply ID 30932
No - basically Eyeore has the real point. Businesses can only survive if they make enough money to continue. Ultimately this comes down to having enough customers. Yes high business rates are a contributing factor but ultimately - Use it or lose it!
Reply ID 30933
Are any other characters from the 100 Acre Wood lurking on the forum? [:D]
Reply ID 30935
quote:Tigger.........Piglet.........
Originally posted by Steve
Are any other characters from the 100 Acre Wood lurking on the forum? [:D]
Reply ID 31026
quote:I would also say that supermarkets (the global top 10 retail companies in the world contain Asda-Wall-Mart, Tesco & Sainsburys in that order, European top 10 include Lidl & Aldi) have such wellie that they dictate to suppliers what prices they are willing to spend on a product, demand money from the supplier to ensure good product placement on shelves and generally screw everybody else in the procees - particularly the high street. Supermarkets and their power has become so huge that even government rolls over to them. Are publishers also to blame? Possibly, they sold the books to the supermarkets in the first place. It is better to have an empty warehouse with £1 profit per book than it is to have a 1/2 full warehouse (with associated costs) with a £2 profit per book - less associated costs & greater turnover. I suggest everyone go down to Methvens and buy a copy of "Not on the label" by Felicity Lawrence and marvel in horror at how supermarkets control our food, food production, global poverty, environmental damage, high street and our slowly dissipating communities.
Originally posted by jez_p
No - basically Eyeore has the real point. Businesses can only survive if they make enough money to continue. Ultimately this comes down to having enough customers. Yes high business rates are a contributing factor but ultimately - Use it or lose it!
Reply ID 31082
quote:Sainsbury are no where near making the global top 10. I was a buyer at Tesco up until a few years ago and I never dictated prices. The majority of tales about the "big bad retailers" simply are not true. Some are, but its the minority. I drove a hard bargain, but the majority of farmers still had their top spec Range Rovers. The big retailers are simply bashed for being top of the food chain (no pun intended). Does anyone remember only a few years ago, the newspapers calling for a public enquiry into high supermarket prices? Everyone was comparing the cost of goods in America to here, stating that we were being ripped off. The supermarkets respond, and now they are accused of screwing over suppliers. they can't win. I've read "not on the label" and whilst it made an interesting read, a lot of it was wild assuption which was not correct. The real problem lies with the customers who choose to shop there.
Originally posted by Mr Pquote:I would also say that supermarkets (the global top 10 retail companies in the world contain Asda-Wall-Mart, Tesco & Sainsburys in that order, European top 10 include Lidl & Aldi) have such wellie that they dictate to suppliers what prices they are willing to spend on a product, demand money from the supplier to ensure good product placement on shelves and generally screw everybody else in the procees - particularly the high street. Supermarkets and their power has become so huge that even government rolls over to them. Are publishers also to blame? Possibly, they sold the books to the supermarkets in the first place. It is better to have an empty warehouse with £1 profit per book than it is to have a 1/2 full warehouse (with associated costs) with a £2 profit per book - less associated costs & greater turnover. I suggest everyone go down to Methvens and buy a copy of "Not on the label" by Felicity Lawrence and marvel in horror at how supermarkets control our food, food production, global poverty, environmental damage, high street and our slowly dissipating communities.
Originally posted by jez_p
No - basically Eyeore has the real point. Businesses can only survive if they make enough money to continue. Ultimately this comes down to having enough customers. Yes high business rates are a contributing factor but ultimately - Use it or lose it!
Reply ID 31107
There are a number of factors and I believe that the all contribute in varying amounts to the decline. Parking, Overheads, Supermarkets, Disposable Income, Reduction in big employers. During the day, the town centre is almost like a ghost town. It starts getting busy when workers start taking there luch breaks, although this number appears to be declining. People will drive to Tesco and get some lunch and do a bit of shopping there as they can stop in the car park nip in and out for no cost all within a lunch hour. I used to work at John Tate Road, and if we popped out at lunchtime it was usually to Brookfield Farm because it was easy to park and it was free. There seems to be less people coming down from County Hall / Pegs Lane, again major employers in the town. And then to cap it all the market rolls into town on a Saturday which whilst does encourage more people doesn't make up for the 5 quiet days previously. The town centre businesses need regular trade 5 or 6 days a week, and at the moment there just isn't the volume of people during the week to do this for what ever reason.
Reply ID 31108
quote:Think the others are a bit [:I] and have disguised themselves. Better ask them over a pot of Honey or a game of Poosticks [:p][:D]
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:Tigger.........Piglet.........
Originally posted by Steve
Are any other characters from the 100 Acre Wood lurking on the forum? [:D]
Reply ID 31293
quote:Thanks Hato, been telling people this for years.
I used to work at John Tate Road, and if we popped out at lunchtime it was usually to Brookfield Farm because it was easy to park and it was free.
Reply ID 31303
quote:Have there been trials of free parking in Hertford or similar towns? And if so what was the impact on the town and the traders?
Originally posted by sloopjohnbquote:Thanks Hato, been telling people this for years.
I used to work at John Tate Road, and if we popped out at lunchtime it was usually to Brookfield Farm because it was easy to park and it was free.
Reply ID 31311
waltham abbey is an interesting case. they introduced parking charges and the town died. I believe they're discussing abolishing them again now to get the town back on it's feet!
Reply ID 31321
My biggest fear is that the pattern in Hertford seems a mirror of Hoddesdon at the end of the 80's. High rent, parking issues, lack of chain stores, non commercial firms moving away taking the employment opportunities with them. The planning policy simply seems to be behind the times. It's always playing catch up to business needs. Just look at the volume of Empty units down Mead Lane. Many want out because the council do nothing to make it appealing (ie, make it accessible). That means less business, less employment. These are the very people who would often use the town centre at lunch time.
Reply ID 32708
I believe Tesco is responsible for many shops closing in the past; butchers, bakers and fishmongers(recently). my family has a holiday home in norfolk and through a small village we frequently visited there used to be a massive farmers market on the land where a huge Tesco has now been built. Recently the village has been becoming a ghost town with only a butchers remaining, the bakers etc have all been forced to close. What can we do? nothing the locals protested and protested but lost. thats the way it goes
Reply ID 32717
quote:Well maybe the locals should have protested with their feet when the Tesco opened by not shopping there.
Originally posted by Veyron500
I believe Tesco is responsible for many shops closing in the past; butchers, bakers and fishmongers(recently). my family has a holiday home in norfolk and through a small village we frequently visited there used to be a massive farmers market on the land where a huge Tesco has now been built. Recently the village has been becoming a ghost town with only a butchers remaining, the bakers etc have all been forced to close. What can we do? nothing the locals protested and protested but lost. thats the way it goes
Reply ID 32718
quote:Some did but their numbers were too small
Originally posted by azzza
Well maybe the locals should have protested with their feet when the Tesco opened by not shopping there.
Reply ID 32722
quote:I'm sure that you can blame Tesco's for many things, but I don't think the closure of Claydon's had anything to do with them. John and his wife had simply had enough of getting up at God knows what hour every morning to go to Billingsgate and then be on their feet every day in freezing conditions. You only had to look at the queue outside the shop to see how popular they were, and, incidentally still are with their stall on Fridays and Saturdays.
Originally posted by Veyron500
I believe Tesco is responsible for many shops closing in the past; butchers, bakers and fishmongers(recently). my family has a holiday home in norfolk and through a small village we frequently visited there used to be a massive farmers market on the land where a huge Tesco has now been built. Recently the village has been becoming a ghost town with only a butchers remaining, the bakers etc have all been forced to close. What can we do? nothing the locals protested and protested but lost. thats the way it goes
Reply ID 32726
Shops also have to look at their opening hours. I get back to Hertford from work at about 6.30. In the past I have deliberately gone to HE (the opposite side of town to where I live) to go to some shops on the way home. I am met by locked and shuttered stores. I am left with the option of Tescos or errr that's it. Hertford is a commuter town these days and Monday to Friday shops need to reflect this in their hours.
Reply ID 32728
Hertford is a fine town with a fairly good variety of shops. Unfortunately for most people who do not want to buy charming knick-knacks, over-sized exotic furniture, be spoilt for choice by hairdressers/barbers/beauty salons, there is nothing much else on offer. There's only one shoe shop, no reasonably priced ladies/mens clothing shops, no childrenswear shops other than the tad expensive shop opposite the Shire Hall, oh, and more than enough bars, cafes and retaurants. But setting all those concerns aside, Hertford as a town needs to understand that people will vote with their wheels, let alone their feet. For years Hertford has tried its damndest to make it as difficult as possible to use cars in the perverse belief that people will leave them at home and use the inadequate bus service, or walk into town. They won't. They will travel further afield to areas that provide them with the shops they need and the free parking they require. Is there a solution? Who knows! The rates are too high, the rents are too high, the parking charges are ridiculous.
Reply ID 32731
quote:Spot on Gabriel - unfortunately [:(]
Originally posted by gabriel
Hertford is a fine town with a fairly good variety of shops. Unfortunately for most people who do not want to buy charming knick-knacks, over-sized exotic furniture, be spoilt for choice by hairdressers/barbers/beauty salons, there is nothing much else on offer. There's only one shoe shop, no reasonably priced ladies/mens clothing shops, no childrenswear shops other than the tad expensive shop opposite the Shire Hall, oh, and more than enough bars, cafes and retaurants. But setting all those concerns aside, Hertford as a town needs to understand that people will vote with their wheels, let alone their feet. For years Hertford has tried its damndest to make it as difficult as possible to use cars in the perverse belief that people will leave them at home and use the inadequate bus service, or walk into town. They won't. They will travel further afield to areas that provide them with the shops they need and the free parking they require. Is there a solution? Who knows! The rates are too high, the rents are too high, the parking charges are ridiculous.
Reply ID 32732
quote:We tried being open until 6.30 for the first few months of opening. What we found was that the shop was empty from 5pm onwards leaving the boys twiddling their thumbs and unable to start cleaning in the off-chance that we had a customer. Sloop will concur that it's hard enough getting shopkeepers to the monthly town meetings so to garner enough support to turn Hertford into a late-night shopping mecca will be nigh on impossible. A mecca is really the only option; enough financial transactions will need to take place in those last few hours to ensure that staff wages are able to be met. There simply isn't enough trade passing through town on foot to stay open late very night; not surprisingly people simply want to get home after a long day at work - and who can blame them![:)]
Originally posted by carlos fandango
Shops also have to look at their opening hours. I get back to Hertford from work at about 6.30. In the past I have deliberately gone to HE (the opposite side of town to where I live) to go to some shops on the way home. I am met by locked and shuttered stores. I am left with the option of Tescos or errr that's it. Hertford is a commuter town these days and Monday to Friday shops need to reflect this in their hours.
Reply ID 32734
quote:If the range of shops is right, it makes no sense to travel for free parking. Four hours in Hertford costs £2.30 - about the same as it costs for a small family car to make the return trip to Welwyn from Hertford (typically 8p per mile for petrol, plus the same again for wear and tear and mileage-related depreciation).
Originally posted by gabriel They will travel further afield to areas that provide them with the shops they need and the free parking they require. Is there a solution? Who knows! The rates are too high, the rents are too high, the parking charges are ridiculous.
Reply ID 32739
Welwyn, Stevenage, Brookfield Farm and others my have a range of big retailers and ample parking (free or not), but they all are horrible looking, unfriendly, souless places in terms of architectural design and shopping there is not a pleasure. Ok, so there's Next, M&S, Shoesave and Cheroke, but it doesn't matter which branch, in which town you shop at, you'll still be buying the same as everybody else. Is that what we really want for Hertford? Sure, our shops have to battle to find a niche and a product range sufficiently attractive to command a high mark-up, as a result of low turnover and high costs. Sometimes there will be only one dress you like and not the size that you want. Yes, looking at clothes shops, you could be forgiven for thinking that Hertford women are all skinny, rich teenagers or octogenarians and all the men are all walking around barefoot. You will not to be able to buy a reel of multicore solder, or diodes for your electronics project anywhere. They will have sold out of dancing penguins by the time you realise how much you really need one. It's annoying, but I hope there's a place for quirky retailing here for some time. It makes Hertford different. Short of knocking the town center down and building a Brent Cross on it, being different is Hertford's best bet.
Reply ID 32746
I accept your point Farrow but I will be doing some Chrimbo shopping tonight. Money I would like to have tried to spend in Hertford will go elsewhere because the shops i need will be closed when I can get there. I also have to agree with Gabriel. The range of shops available pretty much forces one to go elsewhere in most cases. Now Methvens is in its death throes what IS there to entice me out with my cash (as a forty something male). If it wasn't for the market and to go to bars/restaurants I'm not sure I would ever enter the town centre.
Reply ID 32866
quote:But most people don't see it like that - People seem to ignore the fact that is costs money to run their Chelsea Tractors and will drive miles to find free parking for the gas guzzling beasts. Actually I agree totally that if Hertford had the right range of shops people would shop there. It would be great to get Waterstones or HMV to take on the old Methvens site. Next or another similar outlet to take on McDonalds. Extend Serendipity into the unit next door... Soulless clone town? perhaps, but it is surely better than a soulless ghost town
Originally posted by Stephen
If the range of shops is right, it makes no sense to travel for free parking. Four hours in Hertford costs £2.30 - about the same as it costs for a small family car to make the return trip to Welwyn from Hertford (typically 8p per mile for petrol, plus the same again for wear and tear and mileage-related depreciation).
Reply ID 32871
We need to use this Town or we will LOSE it. It a great place. Everybody cannot be pleased all of the time. Maybe I'm sad but I can get almost all of my Festive Shopping in Town.