Topic ID 2208
I don't know if this happens at North as well, but I see an unusually large amount of police (both community support and full-time) at Hertford East some mornings, once a week or so. They don't seem to be doing anything but standing with the inspectors. Anyone know why they're needed there so often? If it's purely to assist the inspectors then my tax payments really are going nowhere ... Steve.
Reply ID 30210
Yes they are there to assist the ticket inspectors with fair dodgers. Think its brilliant as have seen too often people abusing the ticket inspectors when they haven't got a valid ticket and also find it irritating when I pay so much for a ticket and you get others who think its their right to travel for free.
Reply ID 30213
So One can't deliver on their service, and their inspectors are no good at their intended purpose either. There's a surprise!
Reply ID 30214
A lot of the crime committed in Hertford now comes from persons travelling up from North london on the HE line. (mainly because police authorities in North london are being successful in moving them out of their areas). Some of the faces we know, some we don't - there has been a lot of bicycle thefts linked to the railway stations. This morning we had a couple of alerts about possible activity in town from persons who had been spotted leaving the train. HE now targetted because owing to a lot of hard work done by the town centre traders through the Town Watch links, in co-operation with the Police community team and CCTV most of our usual faces that did about 90 per cent of the crime in Hertford that came into town on the HN line from Stevenage now don't. Owing to the displacement effect the latter group now target other towns along the HN line leaving us to concentrate on the HE line. Once the camera goes in at Mill Road all the CCTV operators will need is a railway timetable to pick up arrivals and departures and let us in town know who is about. I don't publicise every arrest or success these days but most of the tea leaves in the town centre are usually picked up in the Hertford East area - usually just before a train is about to depart - these people also have a fine grip on the esoteric working of the One rail network. See other thread on Dell's stolen bike. Similar operations do take place at HN but Stevenage CCTV control have usually alert us to any familiar faces boarding a Hertford bound train - so the town has about a twenty minute advantage on the 'shoppers'. As for your taxes steven, any assistance the police give to inspectors regarding fare dodgers is purely incidental - but it does help them if there are uniforms about.
Reply ID 30218
So what's with the walk-through metal detectors, handheld detectors and dogs then? Guns and knives I suppose [:(]
Reply ID 30222
quote:I'm really impressed that so much is going on behind the scenes. Well done all involved. It's a pity that, once caught after all this effort, they get off so lightly.
Originally posted by sloopjohnb
A lot of the crime committed in Hertford now comes from persons travelling up from North london on the HE line. (mainly because police authorities in North london are being successful in moving them out of their areas). Some of the faces we know, some we don't - there has been a lot of bicycle thefts linked to the railway stations. This morning we had a couple of alerts about possible activity in town from persons who had been spotted leaving the train. HE now targetted because owing to a lot of hard work done by the town centre traders through the Town Watch links, in co-operation with the Police community team and CCTV most of our usual faces that did about 90 per cent of the crime in Hertford that came into town on the HN line from Stevenage now don't. Owing to the displacement effect the latter group now target other towns along the HN line leaving us to concentrate on the HE line. Once the camera goes in at Mill Road all the CCTV operators will need is a railway timetable to pick up arrivals and departures and let us in town know who is about. I don't publicise every arrest or success these days but most of the tea leaves in the town centre are usually picked up in the Hertford East area - usually just before a train is about to depart - these people also have a fine grip on the esoteric working of the One rail network. See other thread on Dell's stolen bike. Similar operations do take place at HN but Stevenage CCTV control have usually alert us to any familiar faces boarding a Hertford bound train - so the town has about a twenty minute advantage on the 'shoppers'. As for your taxes steven, any assistance the police give to inspectors regarding fare dodgers is purely incidental - but it does help them if there are uniforms about.
Reply ID 30223
Ok, that I can fully accept. Actually, I'd rather see police on the trains rather than assisting inspectors with dodgers as an aside - it may prevent some of the vandalism and thuggery that goes on. And also perhaps stop those selfish idiots from putting their dirty shoes on the seats!
Reply ID 30225
quote:Do any of the late night trains into Hertford still have the uniformed security guards?
Originally posted by steven
Ok, that I can fully accept. Actually, I'd rather see police on the trains rather than assisting inspectors with dodgers as an aside - it may prevent some of the vandalism and thuggery that goes on. And also perhaps stop those selfish idiots from putting their dirty shoes on the seats!
Reply ID 30226
I rarely see any uniformed inspectors outside of rush hour, but to be fair I never travel further than Ware and back if I use the train in the evening, which is about once a week.
Reply ID 30235
Good post Sloop. Good to know what goes on. I must admit I am surprised at the stories I hear about the HE line when i come into HN a bit the worse for wear on a (reasonably) regular basis. Never had a problem (yet). Lucky or stupid I guess.
Reply ID 30248
The stops on the Hertford North line are a lot friendlier
Reply ID 30264
Hackney, Haringay, Fisbury Park friendlier? you kidding?
Reply ID 30265
Calos, ask yourself this question. If you had to get home from central London at 10pm, which line you would you rather use? HN for me every time.
Reply ID 30266
To be extra safe you can take the Stanstead Airportor/fast Cambridge train from Liv Street to Broxbourne (stops only Tott hale), then get on the HE train. Saying that it was a lot scarier when the HE train used to go via Seven Sisters....
Reply ID 30268
I used the Liv. Strret line to Cheshunt for 12 years so I do know what it's like. I think what I notice about the 2 lines is that the "problem" areas extend further up from Liv. Street than Kings X.
Reply ID 30271
Seven Sisters..used to hate having to change there when I was commuting. We always seemed to get stuck there for 45 minutes, too. Broxbourne is also an appalling place to get stuck, freezing cold in the winter too. But then it's a bit of a trek across town to Hertford North so it's swings and roundabouts.
Reply ID 30272
Am I correct in assuming that the trains into Hertford North and Hertford East are not safe after the rush hour?
Reply ID 30273
I wouldnt say that necessarily, its more the perception, trains are quieter and more grottier with very poor lighting at stations. Cheshunt, Waltham Cross, Brimsdown, Hackney Downs - they dont have good reputations. I could understand a woman alone feeling vulnerable.
Reply ID 30274
Due to the effort of staff, CCTV and Police a succesful arrest was made and the offender prosecuted. Don't know anymore about the punishment but the 'victim' did get compensation from the 'yob'
Reply ID 30277
I agree with Ian, it is a matter of perception. I used to get the last train from Liverpool Street quite frequently when a swift drink after work became drinks plural! Take a good book with you - it's a long journey, you wouldn't think you were only going a few miles out of London - and just don't engage with any of the nutters on board. The main problem used to be trying not to fall asleep when the wretched train stopped at Broxbourne for half an hour before crawling at a snail's pace to Hertford East.
Reply ID 30279
quote:In a previous existence I made this point to as it was then BR. I had a polite reply in the vein that it would be better to take a later train from Liverpool East and change at Broxbourne. The writer was obviously a teetotaller because this had the built in problems of falling asleep and ending up in Harlow, or Cambridge. I used the North line more and often walked home under the stars from Watton. My remembrance of those days is telling kids with whom I would never normally contemplate engaging in intellectual conversations to 'take your feet off the seats' or 'turn your music down'. Then quickly realise what I'd done and hope the shock of being shouted at by an extra large, angry and inebriated but obviously unfit City worker was enough of a surprise to do the trick. Fortunately for me, it usually was. Not so sure I'd attempt it now.
The main problem used to be trying not to fall asleep when the wretched train stopped at Broxbourne for half an hour before crawling at a snail's pace to Hertford East.
Reply ID 30458
quote:Unfortunately nowadays, the person with their feet on the seats IS a city worker in suit, tie, etc, and he will be just as abusive to you if you tell him to take his feet off the seats/turn music down/put out his cigarette. I speak from experience :( People that should know better care as little as those that don't.
Originally posted by sloopjohnb My remembrance of those days is telling kids with whom I would never normally contemplate engaging in intellectual conversations to 'take your feet off the seats' or 'turn your music down'. Then quickly realise what I'd done and hope the shock of being shouted at by an extra large, angry and inebriated but obviously unfit City worker was enough of a surprise to do the trick. Fortunately for me, it usually was. Not so sure I'd attempt it now.
Reply ID 36635
Had to laugh this morning. As the train to Hertford East pulled into Ware it was pretty obvious that the ticket inspectors and local PCSO's were out in force. Seeing this, a couple of ticketless students from the college who were sat in the seats across from me decided to stay on the train, go to Hertford and get a ticket and then travel all the way back to Ware. Great plan - and it might have worked if Hertford East wasn't also being covered by inspectors and its own local PCSO's. Double Whammy - it would have been cheaper to buy a ticket in the first place kids!
Reply ID 36643
I got caught by those this morning too. Why are PCSO's checking my ticket and allowing me to get on to the platform anyway? Isn't that the job of One staff? Aren't the PCSO's just for potential abuse support? Hmmm, very odd. So much for them acting to beat semi-organised crime, it seems they're just used to score fines off of kids not getting a ticket ...
Reply ID 36657
quote:The use of PCSOs for this may or may not be an issue - what I reckon is an issue is that I tend to buy a valid ticket when I'm using the train (& as this hard earned cash goes to the ONE useless train company I do not do this with particually good grace) It pees me off no end that various people , student or not it would appear, seem to feel that its "okay" not to buy a valid ticket. I suspect the poor sods that pay £Ks for a yearly season (as I used to) feel even more strongly about tehe issue String 'em up I say , only language they understand........
Originally posted by steven
I got caught by those this morning too. Why are PCSO's checking my ticket and allowing me to get on to the platform anyway? Isn't that the job of One staff? Aren't the PCSO's just for potential abuse support? Hmmm, very odd. So much for them acting to beat semi-organised crime, it seems they're just used to score fines off of kids not getting a ticket ...
Reply ID 36660
It does annoy me that so many people get off of paying, but that's been a problem since the dawn of public transport. I already pay One over and above what I get for the money, but it seems my tax is also going towards preventing free riders in the form of "police" checking my ticket, when there are already staff that I've paid for. That aggravates me.
Reply ID 36670
I would like to know what the percentage of non payers is on the hertford north to fins park on arsenal matchday...have not had my ticket checked at fins pk in the last 4 or 5 years...and have not had my ticket checked on a train all season
Reply ID 36671
quote:the same could certainly be said from Hertford east to white hart lane when spurs are playing at home - but lets face it, would you fancy your chances with a mix of pissed up footie fans(and or yobs)- the potential for getting a kicking would be pretty high if you even thought about trying to penalty charge the fare dodgers amongst them...
Originally posted by tsr
I would like to know what the percentage of non payers is on the hertford north to fins park on arsenal matchday...have not had my ticket checked at fins pk in the last 4 or 5 years...and have not had my ticket checked on a train all season
Reply ID 36674
I think there should be staff checking tickets or just providing a reassuring presence late at night. Many's the time I've been the only woman in a carriage full of drunken oiks urinating, smoking and chucking food around. I have to put up with it, in fact I'm expected to pay for the priviledge, why can't FCC or ONE pay some staff to tolerate the same horrible conditions? [:(] I always fare-dodge. (I don't commute - I go up to London to meet friends or see bands a couple of times a month). I have been let down by WAGN, FCC and ONE so many times over so many years, given wrong info or no info, dumped in unstaffed stations late at night to wait for a non-existant rail replacement bus service... and they expect me to PAY for this? Never. [:(!] [}:)]
Reply ID 36677
5... 4... 3... 2... 1...
Reply ID 36678
quote:Probably because of cheap, scummy people like yourself that dodge fares. Is your brain actually working?
Originally posted by Rachel
why can't FCC or ONE pay some staff to tolerate the same horrible conditions? [:(]
Reply ID 36679
quote:Crikey! Did a bile grenade go off? I'm not sure I'd find many occasions where I'd defend Rachel's corner (what with us being of like mind and schtuff) but even I'm scratching my chin at that.
Originally posted by stevenquote:Probably because of cheap, scummy people like yourself that dodge fares. Is your brain actually working?
Originally posted by Rachel
why can't FCC or ONE pay some staff to tolerate the same horrible conditions? [:(]
Reply ID 36680
quote:I don't like strawberries. Does this mean that I'm entitled to walk out of a shop without paying for them? You waived the right to complain as soon as you chose not to pay. Your fare-dodging makes you a thief and it deprives the train companies of the funds that they need to improve their service.
they expect me to PAY for this? Never.
Reply ID 36681
quote:OK - the service from HE is crap so don't use it. It does not absolve you from the requirement to cough up the fair - thats just WRONG [:(!] If I want to go into town most of the time I'll get on the jubilee line at Stanmore - easy parking, reliable service
Originally posted by Rachel
I think there should be staff checking tickets or just providing a reassuring presence late at night. Many's the time I've been the only woman in a carriage full of drunken oiks urinating, smoking and chucking food around. I have to put up with it, in fact I'm expected to pay for the priviledge, why can't FCC or ONE pay some staff to tolerate the same horrible conditions? [:(] I always fare-dodge. (I don't commute - I go up to London to meet friends or see bands a couple of times a month). I have been let down by WAGN, FCC and ONE so many times over so many years, given wrong info or no info, dumped in unstaffed stations late at night to wait for a non-existant rail replacement bus service... and they expect me to PAY for this? Never. [:(!] [}:)]
Reply ID 36682
quote:One can't complain about others' behaviour when they act the same way themselves, perhaps I should have copied Rachel's exact terms but the sentiment was the same.
Originally posted by Herbert Lemons Crikey! Did a bile grenade go off? I'm not sure I'd find many occasions where I'd defend Rachel's corner (what with us being of like mind and schtuff) but even I'm scratching my chin at that.
Reply ID 36688
Ooh, thanks, Herbert. I do think you're very handsome, BTW. [:I] WAGN/ONE had many hundreds of pounds out of me over the years before I had my epiphany on the last train home from Finsbury Park one night while half-eaten kebabs and cans of Stella whistled past my ears. [xx(] I've nearly clawed back now all of the money I shelled out on tickets for trains that never arrived or were so late my evening was ruined. I'm surprised that in their rush to insult me, nobody has made the very valid point that WAGN ain't going to take the money fare-dodgers cost them out of shareholders profits, they'll just cut back on safety and maintenance. Which is why I think I'll take Leo's advice and stop using the trains. [:)] Next time you see a bewildered north London mini-cab driver in Hertford trying to find his way back to the A1, you'll know I've changed my ways. [;)]
Reply ID 36698
I take much enjoyment from how rancourous people become around the issue of fare dodging. It strikes me that the only way for a paedophile to muddy their reputation further is to not buy a bloody ticket. Actively avoiding your train fare is a difficult position to defend but it could easily be regarded as conscientious objection - actually it probably couldn't. Anyhoo, the real villains are the ridiculous cockends who, when presented with an inspector, go through the fabulous pocket slapping routine. "Oh, sorry mate. It's here somewhere. Ummm [poke trousers and nipples] errr... hang on it must be here somewhere... Emmm... Actually mate, well you're not gonna believe this..". Tossers! If you haven't paid then put your hands up to a fair cop - otherwise tie them to the fookin' tracks. The voice of reason at last.
Reply ID 36702
Fare dodging,what a great idea. Just like a criminal record always looks good on a cv.
Reply ID 36706
Good on ya Rachel - someone who admits to giving up paying for a crap service. As long as you're happy to pay the fine (which is probably much less than you have saved) why the hell not. When we get a decent service i'll change my tune. and i think rachel's right - if the fare dodgers paid, the extra money wouldn't go into services.
Reply ID 36714
quote:WAGN, ONE et al simply run the services - they are not responsible for the tracks or safety as such. That's down to Network Rail or whatever they're called after the last Government rebranding, pass the buck excercise. Yes, the service IS crap - but do you REALLY think that deliberately not paying your fare is the answer? That's like not bothering to vote and then bitching that your elected representatives don't represent you!
Originally posted by Rachel I'm surprised that in their rush to insult me, nobody has made the very valid point that WAGN ain't going to take the money fare-dodgers cost them out of shareholders profits, they'll just cut back on safety and maintenance.
Reply ID 36715
To be honest only a fool with very little to lose would not pay a train fare. There are plain clothes inspectors who could be sitting next to you on any train at any time, and if your case has aggravating factors and goes to court you will have a criminal conviction on your papers. I think the conditions of UK's road are ****e in the main. However I still stumped up my 190 quid for a years road tax. Fare dodging is theft pure and simple. If you don't like something, lobby to change it or vote with your feet. There are far too many people drinking from the coffee pot but far fewer who want to fill it up...
Reply ID 36718
quote:Exiled - I could not agree more. [^]
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading Fare dodging is theft pure and simple. If you don't like something, lobby to change it or vote with your feet.
Reply ID 36749
quote:I agree that there are cases where certain laws are questionable. History is full of examples where brave individuals and their followers have stood up for their beliefs and, as a result, unjust laws have been overturned. You could cite several honourable examples, such as the woman's vote and the abolition of slavery, where I wouldn't have a leg to stand on if I tried to disagree with you. However, there are also laws that are universally accepted to be right. No reasonable person would disagree that murder and theft are wrong. Rachel is committing a criminal act by not paying for her train journey. There isn't a court in the land, quite possible the world, where her argument about service would stand up. I am pretty sure that you do not think that Rachel is right to steal. I believe that you are standing up for her because certain members of this forum have expressed strong disagreement with what she is doing and you feel sorry for her. Unfortunately, uncomfortable as you may find it, Rachel is a thief and you are wrong to support what she is doing. I do not like the rail company One. I resent them taking my money and not delivering a reasonable service. However, I continue to buy my fares because being an honest, paying customer is what gives me the right to complain. Would you steal food and then complain to the owner that it is rotten?
i think rachel's right
Reply ID 36755
Dingo you said, "Rachel is committing a criminal act by not paying for her train journey. There isn't a court in the land, quite possible the world, where her argument about service would stand up". Unless you are Cherry Blair.
Reply ID 36758
quote:Where the money goes has zero bearing on anything being talked about here. Statements like this only serve to pacify those that are trying to convince themselves. Fare dodging is the same as tax evasion. You might think you're "sticking it to the man", but in reality all you're doing is making things worse for everyone else.
Originally posted by Bengeobabe
and i think rachel's right - if the fare dodgers paid, the extra money wouldn't go into services.
Reply ID 36763
quote:Great quote!! [:D]
Originally posted by Steve
5... 4... 3... 2... 1...
Reply ID 36773
quote:Spot on Dingo. That set me thinking though (albeit at a bit of a tangent)- what would be the legal rights ref. compensation of anyone fare-dodging on the recent Cumbria train accident? Oh yeh - Virgin would pay them out and then put up the prices..
Originally posted by dingo I continue to buy my fares because being an honest, paying customer is what gives me the right to complain. Would you steal food and then complain to the owner that it is rotten?
Reply ID 36774
quote:lol [:D] Correction: "There isn't a court in the land, quite possible the world, where her argument about service should stand up." I was thinking about the likes of Mugabe and Kim Jong-il as I replied and I fully expected somebody to comment. I didn't expect an example from so close to home though. Nice one! [:)]
Unless you are Cherry Blair.
Reply ID 36781
It's official, I've had a response from One and the police are at Hertford East to check tickets. This is the job of the ticket inspectors that were standing around doing nothing at the time (except smoking and swearing). I presume the taxpayer is paying for this, so I'm paying twice. So, I guess the initial response I had that this was due to an increase of semi-organised crime coming into the area was a pack of lies.
Reply ID 36789
Now every time I see the police dragging somebody away for fare-dodging at Hertford East I'm am going to wonder if it is Rachel[;)]
Reply ID 36798
Was this Herts Police or the British Transport Police ?
Reply ID 36803
I was informed it was British Transport Police, but that wasn't evident by anything written on their jackets that I saw. I've had a response from One again and they say that they're paying for it themselves. If they were paying for it, it'd make about four trillion times more sense to have them walking the trains, especially at night. The inspectors can and have handled handing out fines/taking names up until now, it doesn't take a policeman to do it. However, it might take a policeman to prevent the vandalism that occurs so often, especially due to the apathy of the inspectors/staff.
Reply ID 36806
quote:I certainly didn't notice any British Transport Police at Hertford East yesterday morning. In fact, the "Police" presence seemed to be largely made up of PCSO's from what I recall
Originally posted by steven
I was informed it was British Transport Police, but that wasn't evident by anything written on their jackets that I saw.
Reply ID 36807
quote:Local PCSOs
Originally posted by spitfire
Was this Herts Police or the British Transport Police ?
Reply ID 36842
I have never stolen anything in my life, and I pay £198 for my monthly ticket from HE, but I think Rachel's approach is spot on. I've had loads of incidences where One Railway have cancelled trains late at night and left me stranded by myself in London, where I've sat on a seat cushion that wasn't fixed to the seat and fallen off, where I've been absolutely freezing cold because the trains are so old that the heat doesn't work, where I've got into hassle at work because of their lack of reliability. I have led a 300-signature petition and presented it to One Railway who all but laughed in my face and did absolutely nothing. One Railway, along with NTL (RIP) are my most hated companies in the UK. Passengers are taken advantage of, treated like dirt, cheated out of a reliable service all for astronomical rates. They show zero respect for their customers and often operate unsafe, filthy trains. It's the principal of the thing - when I shop at, say, Marks and Spencer or Hertford's very own Farrow and Farrow, the products are good, the service is excellent, I get treated with basic respect and the experience is pleasurable. I enjoy spending money with them. Every train journey with One is a battle - to get a seat, to actually arrive at your destination on time, to not fall off a seat because it's broken. So, good luck to you Rachel, if I wasn't a) a scaredy cat, b) a good girl and c)didn't have to use my ticket to go through the security barriers at Liverpool Street I would join you.
Reply ID 36843
I've already said this before but it seems not to be sinking in. When you travel for free the only people you're affecting are other passengers. One don't/won't notice, there's less investment in the system, and the passengers suffer. It is selfish and arrogant to believe fare dodging is OK.
Reply ID 36845
quote:Good for you Jo_S! If I had seen your petition there would have been 301 signatures [:)] By the way, One's parent company made a profit of £104.1 million last year, before tax (and after Rachel). Companies are there to make money. Disgruntled customers kicking up a fuss, much as you have done, cause embarrassment and can make the share prices drop when given the right publicity. However, fare dodgers just create more operating cost which gives companies like One another excuse to increase the end cost to the customer. Steven is correct. It's the captive customer base that pays.
I have led a 300-signature petition and presented it to One Railway
Reply ID 36991
Rachel - give fare dodging a go tonight.
Reply ID 37058
quote:[:D][:D][:D]
Originally posted by James007
Rachel - give fare dodging a go tonight.
Reply ID 37344
I think it's interesting that the two people on this thread who've expressed some understanding of my views have both been women. [:)] I think if some of the men posting here had wives or daughters who had been through some of the things that I've been through trying to get home from London late at night (especially at weekends) - well, I'm not saying they'd support fare dodging but they'd certainly be a bit less judgemental. I guess only women travelling alone know what it's like to be trying to enjoy a great night out in London while all the time worrying, 'Will the train home be OK?', knowing that even though you've checked the updates, the train still might not run and if it does, you could well be in for a very nasty experience on an unstaffed train. [V] There are never ticket inspectors on the late trains, presumably because it is deemed too dangerous. Well, if the rail companies accept that their service is so poor that they won’t risk their own staff using it, it’s hardly surprising that I’m not prepared to pay for it. It is of course not One’s or FCC’s fault that our society is so broken-down that people using trains late at night are often drunk, abusive and violent. What FCC and One should do however is accept some responsibility for keeping other passengers safe and invest in some security staff. I only use FCC/One trains occasionally, I don't commute and I pity those who do. I understand how galling it must be to pay a ludicrous amount out of your taxed income for the worst service in Europe and it is disappointing that Jo S's efforts have not seen results yet. A couple of people on this thread have made the point that if you don’t pay for a service, you’ve no right to complain about it. Fair enough - but there is unfortunately no evidence that paying for your ticket gives you any entitlement to have your voice heard or your request for service improvements considered. [:(]
Reply ID 37376
When my wife comes home late at night she goes from Kings X to Hatfield and drives or gets a taxi. There are more trains with more people on and there are fast trains that only take 20 odd mins. She feels safer with this than an all stopper to Hertford. Can't say I disagree with her either.
Reply ID 37387
The last two times I have caught the last train back from Kings X to Hertford North I've had to endure the people sitting behind me vomiting throughout. The last time was particularly unpleasant as it was a bus replacement service and lasted two hours. People abusing the service is not the fault of the rail companies, but that kind of environment doesn't exactly make me want to shell out hard-earned cash for the journey.
Reply ID 37405
As a regular train user I have mixed feelings about the police presence. I am pro them catching up with people causing genuine trouble (i.e. fires in trains, assaulting staff). I am however a little resentful about the fact that the railway company currently appears to be getting a lot of support from the police in their revenue control efforts. In the great scheme of things, the number of people going to and from Hertford via train is probably a small % of the total town population. With the police ticket checking, what about all the other issues out there that are not being tackled? Example: On my walk to the station (less than 10 mins) I can sometimes count in excess of 5 tax disks out of date on cars (the walk gets a little boring!). So, instead of the police checking tickets at HE, they could spend 1/2 hour patrolling the streets and potentially do a more valuable job for the public at large. If they catch 5 people at HE with no tickets, then who gains? The train company. To stop fare dodgers at London, they put barriers up. (I personally don’t like this because it immediately implies that we are all trying to cheat the system, but that is an aside). On the worst days, the HE train arrives in London on platform 1 the same time as trains arrive on platforms 2 and 3. Not only can it take 5 minutes to get off the platform, it can also be dangerous (as per last week when they threw everyone off 4 trains at the same time). So, as a result, my journey is just that little bit more miserable. Now, fare dodgers could be caught at HE with a similar system - that will probably cheer up all you anti fair dodgers. But yet again, life for the majority becomes just that tiny bit more miserable. I would rather there be the risk that people dodge fares. But what do I know - I am just a scummy person who uses the trains every day.
Reply ID 37435
Police at Hertford East - never when there is any trouble - come back after 8pm on a Friday and there seems to be hordes of teenagers with drink in various forms getting on at Ware (or rather one getting on, then forcing the doors open when the train is about to leave to let another 10 or so get on - half of which get left on the platform so they scream conversations out of the window/over the mobile phone until they get to Hertford East where they seem to meet more teenagers on the platform (all similarly drinking) have noisy discussions with them then go back to Ware - until the last train presumably although I tend to hurry out of the station This happened last Friday (but I have seen similar previously) - I am female, was on my own and did feel quite intimidated by the sheer numbers of roudy youths (and god did that sound like my mother) but there was not a police person in sight - obviously because it is better to direct resources at the overcrowded (if running) trains at rush hour to catch a few fare dodgers than to patrol trains when there is likely to be trouble or to prevent vandalism (the 925 from tot hale was delayed that evening then terminated at broxbourne due to someone trashing the drivers cab on the journey from HE to Liv St - it was the one at the back of the train) so - One/police force putting profits before passengers - now there is something new [:(!]
Reply ID 37485
quote:Coincidence, nothing more. How can you possibly justify stealing because you feel unsafe? If you truly felt that way you'd find another way home.
Originally posted by Rachel
I think it's interesting that the two people on this thread who've expressed some understanding of my views have both been women. [:)]
quote:This affects everyone, not just females!
Originally posted by Rachel
I think if some of the men posting here had wives or daughters who had been through some of the things that I've been through trying to get home from London late at night (especially at weekends) - well, I'm not saying they'd support fare dodging but they'd certainly be a bit less judgemental. I guess only women travelling alone know what it's like to be trying to enjoy a great night out in London while all the time worrying, 'Will the train home be OK?', knowing that even though you've checked the updates, the train still might not run and if it does, you could well be in for a very nasty experience on an unstaffed train.
quote:Please engage brain! You make a presumption then later in the paragraph accept it as fact. Can you cite your source for it being too dangerous for staff to patrol in the evenings? Had you ever considered the possibility that fare dodgers may affect the amount of staff at hand?
Originally posted by Rachel
There are never ticket inspectors on the late trains, presumably because it is deemed too dangerous. Well, if the rail companies accept that their service is so poor that they won’t risk their own staff using it, it’s hardly surprising that I’m not prepared to pay for it.
quote:If it's not One's fault, why are you punishing them (and other commuters) by not paying? Your logic seems to have no logic. I do agree that they are partly responsible, but I also believe you should accept some responsibility yourself and PAY YOUR WAY. If everyone did then perhaps there would be more staff.
Originally posted by Rachel
It is of course not One’s or FCC’s fault that our society is so broken-down that people using trains late at night are often drunk, abusive and violent. What FCC and One should do however is accept some responsibility for keeping other passengers safe and invest in some security staff.
quote:So that makes it ok? You require evidence of "what if?" before you'll pay? It seems to me everyone's a "victim" and can justify their bad behaviour, be it lack of a skate park or poor service. It doesn't change the fact that it's wrong.
Originally posted by Rachel
A couple of people on this thread have made the point that if you don’t pay for a service, you’ve no right to complain about it. Fair enough - but there is unfortunately no evidence that paying for your ticket gives you any entitlement to have your voice heard or your request for service improvements considered. [:(]