Topic ID 2472
I see in the free paper there is to be an experiment into making Tower Street one way (I have always thought that would be a good idea) and no right turn into Cross Road at peak times..................we shall see. Who is going to police it though, we know drivers ignore the signs that are up now.
Reply ID 35002
Where is Tower Street/Cross Road pls ?
Reply ID 35003
quote:As you reach the top of Port Hill going up the hill toward Bengeo, Cross Road is the first on the left i.e. the one most cars turn down in order to use the rat run. Tower Street is the next one down on the left, past the White Lion, almost opposite the Church. Making it one way will stop people using that as the entrance to the rat run instead. The theory about policing it is that since it is for a limited period of the day only and an easy offence to spot, it is easy to police - unlike people doing the full rat run who could claim they are stopping off to see a friend in the area. I believe that it will also be an offence to park on one side of the road in some of the streets in this area for safety reasons during this time also. This will have the secondary effect of stopping station car parkers IF the residents take all the spots further up the road before the station parkers do.
Originally posted by Frenchie
Where is Tower Street/Cross Road pls ?
Reply ID 35004
The Avenue will get very busy then
Reply ID 35005
Who comes up with this shhhhhtufff? Some of you will be aware of Royston Vasey - the mythical town where the League of Gentlemen was set. In the programme the town signs used to say "Welcome to Royston Vasey - You'll Never Leave". It didn't mean anything until I actually visited High Hadfield in the Peaks were it was filmed. It too has an absurd one way system which is near impossible to negotiate. "You'll never Leave"! We'll find Japanese soldiers in Bengeo in 30 years time who were just trying to get to the Warren. Back to my earlier point - who comes up with this sh*te? Call someone a town planner and they feel compelled to come up with something. It's akin to Abraham Maslow's aphorism "When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail."
Reply ID 35007
As Victor says, the Avenue will get very busy......presumably just as all the mums are taking kids to Bengeo Primary School. The alternative, that some will use, will be via New Rd, Warren Park Road, (just as all the Chelsea Tractors are unloading at Duncombe School). Then, people will turn right out of Warren Park Rd in order that they can turn left into Cross Road. The fact that vehicles travelling towards the town will not be slowed by vehicles trying to turn right into Cross road from Bengeo Street will make the right turn out of Warren Park Rd even more dangerous than it is at present. Still, the planners must know best
Reply ID 35013
Even worse could be if drivers turn left into Warren Park Road, do an immediate U-turn so that they can turn right out of Warren Park Road into Bengeo Street. Will be well worth taking a video camera up there when it's introduced and putting the videos on YouTube. And what about the poor night shift workers that work in Thundridge and live in Farquahar Street?
Reply ID 35017
quote:Who are they? People who live in Farquhar Street don't have to work, let alone nights!
Originally posted by JohnSmith And what about the poor night shift workers that work in Thundridge and live in Farquahar Street?
Reply ID 35022
It was a bit tongue in cheek but the point is still valid. Someone who lives in Farquhar Street will have to enter via North Road, Beane Road, Nelson Street, etc. Not very convenient for them.
Reply ID 35025
quote:What about the Avenue??
Originally posted by JohnSmith
It was a bit tongue in cheek but the point is still valid. Someone who lives in Farquhar Street will have to enter via North Road, Beane Road, Nelson Street, etc. Not very convenient for them.
Reply ID 35026
Yet another stupid waste of money to try and calm the vocal residents of "lower Bengeo" who don't like people driving down their streets. Will it work? - I doubt it Will it be policed? - Highly unlikely as there is already more than enough crime for the police force to deal with without more petty motoring offences to worry about.
Reply ID 35027
My thought was for The Avenue, it is bad enough with the school run without everyone turning right there to head for the rat run.
Reply ID 35032
If we had a severe tax on second (or more) cars, I reckon the amount of people who drive their kids to school would drop astonishingly. (Got a Soapbox for Xmas...)
Reply ID 35049
As my wife said just this morning..."Hertford needs a bypass. What with all the queues coming into town off the A10 in the mornings, the traffic coming through Bengeo and the residents moaning, it just seems to make sense." Let's get back on that one.
Reply ID 35104
quote:A sensible suggestion - the key to solving Hertford and Bengeo's traffic problems is to solve the root cause(s) Hertford is gridlock at peak times because there is not enough capacity for the traffic passing through on the A414 and also the local traffic (mainly school run) The Bengeo "rat run" is a symptom of the bigger problems so solve those and the rat-run problem will hopefully disappear.
Originally posted by 2929paul
As my wife said just this morning..."Hertford needs a bypass. What with all the queues coming into town off the A10 in the mornings, the traffic coming through Bengeo and the residents moaning, it just seems to make sense." Let's get back on that one.
Reply ID 35107
quote:Exactly. The only problem is, these things take 10 to 20 years to implement and the council doesn't seem to have even started the process. That means we will have to deal with severe gridlock in 5 years time while the issue final gets pushed through.
Originally posted by jez_pquote:A sensible suggestion - the key to solving Hertford and Bengeo's traffic problems is to solve the root cause(s) Hertford is gridlock at peak times because there is not enough capacity for the traffic passing through on the A414 and also the local traffic (mainly school run) The Bengeo "rat run" is a symptom of the bigger problems so solve those and the rat-run problem will hopefully disappear.
Originally posted by 2929paul
As my wife said just this morning..."Hertford needs a bypass. What with all the queues coming into town off the A10 in the mornings, the traffic coming through Bengeo and the residents moaning, it just seems to make sense." Let's get back on that one.
Reply ID 35204
It's nice to know the people of Tower Street have been told about this idea. Didn't know anything about it until I've just popped on here and I live in Tower St.
Reply ID 35205
quote:It's not for you. [}:)]
Originally posted by Bubbaoshea
It's nice to know the people of Tower Street have been told about this idea. Didn't know anything about it until I've just popped on here and I live in Tower St.
Reply ID 35217
quote:It was in the free paper last week and the Mercury. I suspect Tower Street will be one way from Duncome Road out to Bengeo Street but it didn't make it clear if that was correct or if it was all day or only peack times.
Originally posted by Bubbaoshea
It's nice to know the people of Tower Street have been told about this idea. Didn't know anything about it until I've just popped on here and I live in Tower St.
Reply ID 35218
They will probably make it as complicated as possible - one way during weekdays and two way at weekends and bank holidays.
Reply ID 35222
Why don't they just put barriers in Tower St and Cross Road, residents then pay for a permit to enter the 'rat run' (obviously at a reduced rate) but anyone else who doesn't live in that area will have to £2.50 per day to use the rat run! That would soon stop people using it..[:D]It would also give the council so extra funds for something..I don't know what though. Saying that, it would never ever happen as too many people would complain.
Reply ID 35224
Yes, I can just see that.........people queuing to get into Cross Road, then fiddling for change for the barrier, then finding that they don't have enough, or can't find their permit, etc, etc. Meanwhile traffic backs up along Bengeo Street.........and when an ambulance, fire engine or police car needs to get through?
Reply ID 35243
quote:In all this, has anybody considered the residents of Port Hill, Cowbridge and St Andrews St? Why do the residents of one area of Hertford think they deserve special treatment which disadvantages the rest?
Originally posted by Bubbaoshea
Why don't they just put barriers in Tower St and Cross Road, residents then pay for a permit to enter the 'rat run' (obviously at a reduced rate) but anyone else who doesn't live in that area will have to £2.50 per day to use the rat run! That would soon stop people using it..[:D]It would also give the council so extra funds for something..I don't know what though. Saying that, it would never ever happen as too many people would complain.
Reply ID 35244
quote:I would suggest most of the people that are complaining CHOOSE to live there. Therefore, they know the territory. We Choose to live where we do, parking is not fantastic but we knew that. If you move to a property where you want to change the environment, why move there in the first place. Beats me.
Originally posted by shuntquote:
Originally posted by Bubbaoshea
Why don't they just put barriers in Tower St and Cross Road, residents then pay for a permit to enter the 'rat run' (obviously at a reduced rate) but anyone else who doesn't live in that area will have to £2.50 per day to use the rat run! That would soon stop people using it..[:D]It would also give the council so extra funds for something..I don't know what though. Saying that, it would never ever happen as too many people would complain. In all this, has anybody considered the residents of Port Hill, Cowbridge and St Andrews St? Why do the residents of one area of Hertford think they deserve special treatment which disadvantages the rest?
Reply ID 35245
Totally agree, wouldn't live in this area because of the bad access and parking, I know and have lived in Hertford/Bengeo all my life and I think its about time this whole issue was taken off the agenda. Its no good giving your issues to me, you knew the score, move!
Reply ID 35248
quote:To suggest that people have no right to try and improve the community and environment in which they live is disgraceful, as is suggesting that anyone adversely affected by such conditions simply move.
Originally posted by Drama Queen
Totally agree, wouldn't live in this area because of the bad access and parking, I know and have lived in Hertford/Bengeo all my life and I think its about time this whole issue was taken off the agenda. Its no good giving your issues to me, you knew the score, move!
Reply ID 35249
quote:So, no change from the present situation, then.
Originally posted by buzz
Meanwhile traffic backs up along Bengeo Street.........and when an ambulance, fire engine or police car needs to get through?
Reply ID 35253
quote:But they are only 'improving' the immediate area around themselves, they do not seem to care about the impact this will have on the residents of Bengeo Street and beyond.
Originally posted by Joby To suggest that people have no right to try and improve the community and environment in which they live is disgraceful, as is suggesting that anyone adversely affected by such conditions simply move.
Reply ID 35269
quote:Hardly the case. The more roads are closed, the more longer routes bear the brunt. However, the situation may well change for Byde Street when one of their families, or one of ours dies in a house fire. Already, there is an arrogance which has led to residents parking in such a manner to prevent the passage of emergency and other large vehicles. My vehicle is considerably smaller than a fire engine and the same width as an ambulance, but when trying to get out of the area a couple of nights ago, I found all but one route blocked by bad (in some cases, illegal) parking. Finally I crept through the small gap left by the black 4x4 vehicle at the top of Byde St, whose owner seems to think it's OK to double park, reducing the road width to a dangerous level. Somebody is going to die if this irresponsible and ant-social behaviour doesn't stop. Lower Bengeo residents should hang their heads in shame and grow up!
Originally posted by Jobyquote:So, no change from the present situation, then.
Originally posted by buzz
Meanwhile traffic backs up along Bengeo Street.........and when an ambulance, fire engine or police car needs to get through?
Reply ID 35277
quote:And the rat-runners do not seem to care about the impact they are having on the people affected by it.
Originally posted by ~Sarah~ But they are only 'improving' the immediate area around themselves, they do not seem to care about the impact this will have on the residents of Bengeo Street and beyond.
Reply ID 35280
quote:In what way are those now hoping to improve their property prices in that area caring about the impact of their actions on the rest of Hertford or the good of the community as a whole?
Originally posted by nora battyquote:And the rat-runners do not seem to care about the impact they are having on the people affected by it.
Originally posted by ~Sarah~ But they are only 'improving' the immediate area around themselves, they do not seem to care about the impact this will have on the residents of Bengeo Street and beyond.
Reply ID 35282
quote:1. I sincerely hope none of my neighbours die in a house fire. 2. Arrogance is not the cause of the problem. 3. Some people in Bengeo park in a selfish manner 4. Some drivers in the area drive in a selfish manner 5. Don't tar everyone with the same brush - residents or drivers
Originally posted by shuntquote:Hardly the case. The more roads are closed, the more longer routes bear the brunt. However, the situation may well change for Byde Street when one of their families, or one of ours dies in a house fire. Already, there is an arrogance which has led to residents parking in such a manner to prevent the passage of emergency and other large vehicles. My vehicle is considerably smaller than a fire engine and the same width as an ambulance, but when trying to get out of the area a couple of nights ago, I found all but one route blocked by bad (in some cases, illegal) parking. Finally I crept through the small gap left by the black 4x4 vehicle at the top of Byde St, whose owner seems to think it's OK to double park, reducing the road width to a dangerous level. Somebody is going to die if this irresponsible and ant-social behaviour doesn't stop. Lower Bengeo residents should hang their heads in shame and grow up!
Originally posted by Jobyquote:So, no change from the present situation, then.
Originally posted by buzz
Meanwhile traffic backs up along Bengeo Street.........and when an ambulance, fire engine or police car needs to get through?
Reply ID 35283
quote:This has nothing to do with property prices. Where have you plucked that from?
Originally posted by shuntquote:In what way are those now hoping to improve their property prices in that area caring about the impact of their actions on the rest of Hertford or the good of the community as a whole?
Originally posted by nora battyquote:And the rat-runners do not seem to care about the impact they are having on the people affected by it.
Originally posted by ~Sarah~ But they are only 'improving' the immediate area around themselves, they do not seem to care about the impact this will have on the residents of Bengeo Street and beyond.
Reply ID 35290
quote:So it's a case of two wrongs make a right?
Originally posted by nora battyquote:And the rat-runners do not seem to care about the impact they are having on the people affected by it.
Originally posted by ~Sarah~ But they are only 'improving' the immediate area around themselves, they do not seem to care about the impact this will have on the residents of Bengeo Street and beyond.
Reply ID 35315
quote:But the 'Rat Runners' did not but a Home there. Anyone that did and does not like should have done their Homework first
Originally posted by nora battyquote:And the rat-runners do not seem to care about the impact they are having on the people affected by it.
Originally posted by ~Sarah~ But they are only 'improving' the immediate area around themselves, they do not seem to care about the impact this will have on the residents of Bengeo Street and beyond.
Reply ID 35329
quote:So what is it about? It's certainly not safety as the resident's actions are plainly more dangerous to pedestrians than than anything anyone in a car is doing. There is no speeding issue (tried it myself in a high performance car after that one came up) because there is no way of reaching speeds higher than lower twenties and in practice, the majority of traffic is travelling at under 10mph. There is no problem except dangerous, obscuring and obstructive parking by residents. I do not see why the rest of Hertford should pay so that you can convert a public road system into a private "resident's only" car park.
Originally posted by 2929paulquote:This has nothing to do with property prices. Where have you plucked that from?
Originally posted by shuntquote:In what way are those now hoping to improve their property prices in that area caring about the impact of their actions on the rest of Hertford or the good of the community as a whole?
Originally posted by nora battyquote:And the rat-runners do not seem to care about the impact they are having on the people affected by it.
Originally posted by ~Sarah~ But they are only 'improving' the immediate area around themselves, they do not seem to care about the impact this will have on the residents of Bengeo Street and beyond.
Reply ID 35331
Maybe the rat runners should start a "park legally" campaign as that appears to be the problem.
Reply ID 35340
quote:Just goes to show how this type of emotive language trickles through even to the campaigners opposition. "Rat runners?"
Originally posted by JohnSmith
Maybe the rat runners should start a "park legally" campaign as that appears to be the problem.
Reply ID 35341
Well, they're rat runners now that the "No Access" signs are in place. Previous to that, I guess they were just run of the mill drivers.
Reply ID 35342
quote:You are so right John. [;)]
Originally posted by JohnSmith
Well, they're rat runners now that the "No Access" signs are in place. Previous to that, I guess they were just run of the mill drivers.
Reply ID 35355
As I have said many times, there is a huge problem with the parking around lower bengeo which must be recognised, addressed and resolved. 15 years ago, traffic levels in lower bengeo were at a level where everyone could just about get a place to park without blocking the way for others and through traffic was not so heavy as to be particularly noticeable. There has always been a bit of a bottleneck at the Nelson/Wellington corner but drivers were generally more courteous and so this did not cause too many issues. Now, the increase in traffic on the roads in general has brought about this current situation. If we stop people turning into Tower Street and Cross Road and eventually they will find it is just as quick to go through The Avenue. That is a faster road as well, since there are no vehicles and you can get up to the full 30mph and really have a bit of fun. If that route gets busy, they can try the Sacombe Road, Wick, Desborough Close, Cowper Crescent, Avenue route. Then, from the Avenue, they can peel off and chose their route to Byde Street: The Drive, then a straight run the full length of Duncombe Road, getting up a full head of steam; or take the next turn left down the wide boulevard that is Westfield Road and hope to turn out into Duncombe before the ones that chose to go down The Drive; or continue down the full length of The Avenue, turn into Church, perhaps hang a right into Elton, zip to the end and a sharp left into Fanshawe and finally right into Byde Street at the crossroads with Farquhar. All these routes use the public highways and it is legal to travel at speeds up to 30mph. All these routes could save you up to 3 minutes or less on your journey to work. And all these routes could see you hit cars, commuters, children, or parents in your rush to get to work just a few minutes earlier. Meanwhile, the queue down Port Hill has cleared and a right turn at Old Cross lights, or a right onto Gascoyne Way at the roundabout after Parliament Square, would have got you to the A414 just as quickly and without the frustration and tension of squeezing through the car park of lower bengeo. By the way, there aren't many cars coming through lower bengeo today for some reason.
Reply ID 35357
Why not turn off the Old Cross lights? Whenever the lights fail, there never seems to be any traffic at the junction.
Reply ID 35359
quote:Highways put those lights in there for a very good reason. No one knows what but it was a very good reason.
Originally posted by JohnSmith
Why not turn off the Old Cross lights? Whenever the lights fail, there never seems to be any traffic at the junction.
Reply ID 35363
quote:Presumably, you are unaware that there are people living in Port Hill, Cowbridge and St Andrews Street, as well as considerably more children on their way to school. As for the bottleneck of Nelson/Wellington St., it doesn't exist as it is a wide junction with two lanes on both roads. The problems there are caused entirely by illegal parking. As a property owner in Cowbridge, would it be reasonable for me to park right on the corner at Old Cross, or double-park on the bend at the bottom of Port Hill? Applying the same standards, presumably, yes. The roads in the area in question are no more unsuitable than any other. They are made so purely by the selfish actions of the residents. No I don't want to pay for Lower Bengeo resident's to gain a private drive. Nobody's buying me one.
Originally posted by 2929paul
As I have said many times, there is a huge problem with the parking around lower bengeo which must be recognised, addressed and resolved. 15 years ago, traffic levels in lower bengeo were at a level where everyone could just about get a place to park without blocking the way for others and through traffic was not so heavy as to be particularly noticeable. There has always been a bit of a bottleneck at the Nelson/Wellington corner but drivers were generally more courteous and so this did not cause too many issues. Now, the increase in traffic on the roads in general has brought about this current situation. If we stop people turning into Tower Street and Cross Road and eventually they will find it is just as quick to go through The Avenue. That is a faster road as well, since there are no vehicles and you can get up to the full 30mph and really have a bit of fun. If that route gets busy, they can try the Sacombe Road, Wick, Desborough Close, Cowper Crescent, Avenue route. Then, from the Avenue, they can peel off and chose their route to Byde Street: The Drive, then a straight run the full length of Duncombe Road, getting up a full head of steam; or take the next turn left down the wide boulevard that is Westfield Road and hope to turn out into Duncombe before the ones that chose to go down The Drive; or continue down the full length of The Avenue, turn into Church, perhaps hang a right into Elton, zip to the end and a sharp left into Fanshawe and finally right into Byde Street at the crossroads with Farquhar. All these routes use the public highways and it is legal to travel at speeds up to 30mph. All these routes could save you up to 3 minutes or less on your journey to work. And all these routes could see you hit cars, commuters, children, or parents in your rush to get to work just a few minutes earlier. Meanwhile, the queue down Port Hill has cleared and a right turn at Old Cross lights, or a right onto Gascoyne Way at the roundabout after Parliament Square, would have got you to the A414 just as quickly and without the frustration and tension of squeezing through the car park of lower bengeo. By the way, there aren't many cars coming through lower bengeo today for some reason.
Reply ID 35373
By the way, there aren't many cars coming through lower bengeo today for some reason. [/quote] it may have escaped your notice that it's snowing today. there aren't many cars anywhere in bengeo moving today. i really object to the posters saying "save our children" - how many children have been hit?? the speed everyone is forced to do in lower bengeo should actually make it a safer place for children.
Reply ID 35374
quote:The roads through lower bengeo were not built for a high volume of traffic but as residential streets. Bengeo Street, Cowbridge, Port Hill, St. Andrews Street were all intended to be main throroughfares and can take heavy volumes of traffic. Bengeo Street and Port Hill are classified as the B158. St. Andrews Street and North Road are classified as the A119. Gascoyne Way is the A414, Welwyn Road is the B1000. What classification has been given to Byde Street, Wellington Street and Nelson Street? It is a residential area and should be respected as such. At the same time, the residents should respect the parking laws and understand when they move into the area that there is restricted parking space available. Illegal parking is selfish and often dangerous.
Originally posted by shuntquote:Presumably, you are unaware that there are people living in Port Hill, Cowbridge and St Andrews Street, as well as considerably more children on their way to school. As for the bottleneck of Nelson/Wellington St., it doesn't exist as it is a wide junction with two lanes on both roads. The problems there are caused entirely by illegal parking. As a property owner in Cowbridge, would it be reasonable for me to park right on the corner at Old Cross, or double-park on the bend at the bottom of Port Hill? Applying the same standards, presumably, yes. The roads in the area in question are no more unsuitable than any other. They are made so purely by the selfish actions of the residents. No I don't want to pay for Lower Bengeo resident's to gain a private drive. Nobody's buying me one.
Originally posted by 2929paul
As I have said many times, there is a huge problem with the parking around lower bengeo which must be recognised, addressed and resolved. 15 years ago, traffic levels in lower bengeo were at a level where everyone could just about get a place to park without blocking the way for others and through traffic was not so heavy as to be particularly noticeable. There has always been a bit of a bottleneck at the Nelson/Wellington corner but drivers were generally more courteous and so this did not cause too many issues. Now, the increase in traffic on the roads in general has brought about this current situation. If we stop people turning into Tower Street and Cross Road and eventually they will find it is just as quick to go through The Avenue. That is a faster road as well, since there are no vehicles and you can get up to the full 30mph and really have a bit of fun. If that route gets busy, they can try the Sacombe Road, Wick, Desborough Close, Cowper Crescent, Avenue route. Then, from the Avenue, they can peel off and chose their route to Byde Street: The Drive, then a straight run the full length of Duncombe Road, getting up a full head of steam; or take the next turn left down the wide boulevard that is Westfield Road and hope to turn out into Duncombe before the ones that chose to go down The Drive; or continue down the full length of The Avenue, turn into Church, perhaps hang a right into Elton, zip to the end and a sharp left into Fanshawe and finally right into Byde Street at the crossroads with Farquhar. All these routes use the public highways and it is legal to travel at speeds up to 30mph. All these routes could save you up to 3 minutes or less on your journey to work. And all these routes could see you hit cars, commuters, children, or parents in your rush to get to work just a few minutes earlier. Meanwhile, the queue down Port Hill has cleared and a right turn at Old Cross lights, or a right onto Gascoyne Way at the roundabout after Parliament Square, would have got you to the A414 just as quickly and without the frustration and tension of squeezing through the car park of lower bengeo. By the way, there aren't many cars coming through lower bengeo today for some reason.
Reply ID 35383
Perhaps they should restrict each house hold to 1 car. Might create a bit more space.. Or with obesity becoming such a problem, ban the cars and give everyone bikes.. Job done! Is the snow melting yet in Bengeo? Took me and age to get into the city this morning and just wondering if it's going to take twice as long getting home. Have to say I'm not looking forward to walking up Byde St in shoes!
Reply ID 35384
snow still falling in bengeo bubbaoshea. enjoy your journey home. i'd start now if you want to get home before morning!!
Reply ID 35390
Bugger! Stopped snowing in the city now but that's to be expected I guess.
Reply ID 35394
Still snowing, my pictures on community will show you what it is like now in Bengeo
Reply ID 35395
The photos on their are superb. Wish I was at home so I could get the snowboard out and have some fun! Work on a day like today should be cancelled so everyone can enjoy some fun in the snow.
Reply ID 35396
The roads through lower bengeo were not built for a high volume of traffic but as residential streets. Bengeo Street, Cowbridge, Port Hill, St. Andrews Street were all intended to be main throroughfares and can take heavy volumes of traffic. Bengeo Street and Port Hill are classified as the B158. St. Andrews Street and North Road are classified as the A119. Gascoyne Way is the A414, Welwyn Road is the B1000. What classification has been given to Byde Street, Wellington Street and Nelson Street? It is a residential area and should be respected as such. At the same time, the residents should respect the parking laws and understand when they move into the area that there is restricted parking space available. Illegal parking is selfish and often dangerous. [/quote] These designations and classifications were applied retrospectively. None of these roads were built for high volume traffic or motorised traffic at all and nobody would have thought it reasonable to go all round the block when there is a direct route available. It's no less reasonable now. Indeed the residents do need to take parking into account. When I lived in Byde St., it was understood, as an unnofficial courtesy, that no-one parked on the left-hand side of the road (looking down the hill). Nelson Street also only parked one side. The overflow went to Molewood Rd and Wellington Street, neither of which went anywhere at the time and so could support double parking. No-one would ever consider parking within two vehicle-lengths of a junction and nobody expected to get a place outside, or near their home. We had one car then, but accepted that to own that, we'd have to make other arrangements for parking because of where we lived.
Reply ID 35398
quote:In fact, I think it was parking only on the left had side as you looked down the hill in Byde Street but whichever, you are right, people were more courteous. Those living in this area should only have one car, none, or buy a house with off street parking which is sufficient for the number of cars they own. Or put up with parking some distance away but legally. Drivers coming through should respect that this is a residential area. Tell me, how can a road classification not be retrospective if it was laid out over 100 years ago?
Originally posted by shunt
Indeed the residents do need to take parking into account. When I lived in Byde St., it was understood, as an unnofficial courtesy, that no-one parked on the left-hand side of the road (looking down the hill). Nelson Street also only parked one side. The overflow went to Molewood Rd and Wellington Street, neither of which went anywhere at the time and so could support double parking. No-one would ever consider parking within two vehicle-lengths of a junction and nobody expected to get a place outside, or near their home. We had one car then, but accepted that to own that, we'd have to make other arrangements for parking because of where we lived.
Reply ID 35402
In fact, I think it was parking only on the left had side as you looked down the hill in Byde Street but whichever, you are right, people were more courteous. Those living in this area should only have one car, none, or buy a house with off street parking which is sufficient for the number of cars they own. Or put up with parking some distance away but legally. Drivers coming through should respect that this is a residential area. Tell me, how can a road classification not be retrospective if it was laid out over 100 years ago? You'll get no disagreement on any of that from me. As for the classifications, they were not made for reasons of volume of traffic, because there was none at a level which might need it to be directed to a particular route. The routes evolved and were later classified. Those classifications were not made on the grounds of road width or suitability, but destinations. Byde Street and Nelson St are actually wider than the narrowest parts of the alternative routes, they just don't seem so, because of more sympathetic parking. Both routes are residential areas.
Reply ID 35542
I have watched this argument on this and other threads and tried to stay out of it as I can see both sides. 1. It is a residential area and people do abuse it as a short cut. 2. People who live there should have realised that there is a traffic issue and the amount parking is limited. As I understand it I have legitimate access as I live very close to the area(the same side of Bengeo street as the rat run). Having said that I do not use the route very often as I find it too much hassle and respect it as a residential area. However tonight I did come into Bengeo using the route as I was heading from the B1000, it was past 9.30pm and I thought it would be OK. As I got to the end of Wellington Street and started to turn into Byde Street I found myself stuck!!! RIGHT at the bottom of Byde St on the left hand side (facing up the hill) was a large pick up truck. Low and behold right opposite it was a hatch-back. I was unable to turn around and so had to carry on....after about 4 or 5 attempts to straighten my car up I managed to get through with about 3 inches to spare each side (My car isn't very big). Now I don't presume to know which vehicle caused the obstruction as I don't know which one got there first if you see what I mean. Also I don't know if they belonged to residents or visitors but I have to say that it did seem like a deliberate attempt to block access. In any case it can only be described as dangerous. I think I am right in saying that residents have objected to the idea of putting a barrier in to stop the problem, but if this was deliberate then there might as well be one put in. At least that way everyone (including the emergency services) would know about it and avoid getting stuck. I only hope that an emergency vehicle does not need access there tonight!!
Reply ID 35554
I shall go the long way round to tewinbury today just in case! I do hope that no emergencies occurred while they obstuction was / is there.
Reply ID 35561
I don't think it's a deliberate attempt to block the route, just lazy residents who want to park close to their house. It all started about ten years ago, when the streets became really fashionable with younger commuters/young couples moving into the area, still owning two cars but with no space to park them. The sort of gentleman's agreement to only park on one side of the road went out of the window and everyone has got more and more worked up ever since. PS - thank you for being so understanding gemipicorn
Reply ID 35568
quote:Exactly. The problem is not the traffic, its the traffic having to move around the lazy resident.
Originally posted by 2929paul
I don't think it's a deliberate attempt to block the route, just lazy residents who want to park close to their house. It all started about ten years ago, when the streets became really fashionable with younger commuters/young couples moving into the area, still owning two cars but with no space to park them. The sort of gentleman's agreement to only park on one side of the road went out of the window and everyone has got more and more worked up ever since. PS - thank you for being so understanding gemipicorn
Reply ID 35571
As far as I remember, the problems started with the erection of the Port Vale barrier, which was wanted by nobody, but a few very vocal Port vale residents. There followed the introduction of the exclusion signs at Cross Rd and Nelson Street, again, wanted by and benefitting only a few. This has caused resentment from the remainder of Hertford, because many saw it as an abuse of civic lobbying of local councillors for selfish ends. The hostility now goes both ways as drivers defy the hated signs and residents park as if the streets were their own. The solution is to remove all the signs and barriers, prosecute the dangerous parkers and return the roads to who actually owns them, i.e. all of us.
Reply ID 35572
quote:hear hear. couldn't agree more.
Originally posted by shunt
As far as I remember, the problems started with the erection of the Port Vale barrier, which was wanted by nobody, but a few very vocal Port vale residents. There followed the introduction of the exclusion signs at Cross Rd and Nelson Street, again, wanted by and benefitting only a few. This has caused resentment from the remainder of Hertford, because many saw it as an abuse of civic lobbying of local councillors for selfish ends. The hostility now goes both ways as drivers defy the hated signs and residents park as if the streets were their own. The solution is to remove all the signs and barriers, prosecute the dangerous parkers and return the roads to who actually owns them, i.e. all of us.
Reply ID 35573
quote:I dont think the extra houses that have been built down there over the last 20/30 or so years have helped either. In any case be it deliberate or not Paul, it was still dangerous which was my main concern. To my mind there is only two ways to go... Either both sides get a little less selfish about their own needs start thinking about others (aka manners) or a barrier should be put up where Byde meets the cross road so nobody gets what they want. That way it's "Either show a little respect or suffer the consiquences!" to both sides.
Originally posted by 2929paul
I don't think it's a deliberate attempt to block the route, just lazy residents who want to park close to their house. It all started about ten years ago, when the streets became really fashionable with younger commuters/young couples moving into the area, still owning two cars but with no space to park them. The sort of gentleman's agreement to only park on one side of the road went out of the window and everyone has got more and more worked up ever since. PS - thank you for being so understanding gemipicorn
Reply ID 35577
The residents should go for a permit scheme like they have on the Folly, seems to work there.
Reply ID 35582
quote:I think that was a different situation though, people using it as a free car park where as Byde Street etc is residents parking stopping the traffic flow.
Originally posted by spitfire
The residents should go for a permit scheme like they have on the Folly, seems to work there.
Reply ID 35584
Of course the steps could always be coverted to a "rat run bypass" that would test out the 4x4's [:D]
Reply ID 35590
quote:I was thinking of marked out parking bays one side and double yellows down the other side. There are some commuters i believe park on these roads.
Originally posted by Marilynquote:I think that was a different situation though, people using it as a free car park where as Byde Street etc is residents parking stopping the traffic flow.
Originally posted by spitfire
The residents should go for a permit scheme like they have on the Folly, seems to work there.
Reply ID 35592
only when the station car park is full. that's the price you pay for living near a station i'm afraid. and i'm sure hertford north station was there when all the current residents moved in.
Reply ID 35594
I suspect people try to park for free first before relenting & paying at HN's car park.
Reply ID 35608
quote:Well it's a possibility, but unlikely. This area has vastly oversubscribed residents parking. Finding a space for a bike when visiting friends is hard enough! Commuters do not have time to cruise around looking for that one elusive space.
Originally posted by Willow
I suspect people try to park for free first before relenting & paying at HN's car park.
Reply ID 35610
They are more likely to park up on Fordwich Rise where there is plenty of off road parking for residents and spare road space for commuters.
Reply ID 35614
quote:The commuters do park on Molewood Road though & they did psrk on Port Vale before the yellow lines were introduced. Seen the little b*ggers many a time [:p]
Originally posted by shuntquote:Well it's a possibility, but unlikely. This area has vastly oversubscribed residents parking. Finding a space for a bike when visiting friends is hard enough! Commuters do not have time to cruise around looking for that one elusive space.
Originally posted by Willow
I suspect people try to park for free first before relenting & paying at HN's car park.
Reply ID 35615
quote:I have the solution! if the residents who currently park on the corner of Nelson/Wellington St. and those who double park all up both roads and Byde Street were to park legally and responsibly in Molewood Road, there'd be no room left for those pesky legal parkers!
Originally posted by JohnSmith
They are more likely to park up on Fordwich Rise where there is plenty of off road parking for residents and spare road space for commuters.
Reply ID 35617
quote:And that is my point, really. It is disappointing and frustrating to hear so many intelligent people whining on about rat runners on the one hand and illegal parking on the other. We should be able to show each other a little bit of respect but in this me first society it seems that the only way to stop this nonsense is to make everyone suffer and what's the point of that. I call it cutting off the nose to spite the face. It would make the area a lot less attractive to live in but it may be the only way to teach everyone a lesson. If it happened, I would move. I don't enjoy this ugly argument as it is.
Originally posted by gemipicorn To my mind there is only two ways to go... Either both sides get a little less selfish about their own needs start thinking about others (aka manners) or a barrier should be put up where Byde meets the cross road so nobody gets what they want. That way it's "Either show a little respect or suffer the consiquences!" to both sides.
Reply ID 35622
To be honest the council should step in and resolve the matter otherwise it will just continue to happen. I used to drive to the station and park the car in the carpark but now I walk everyday. It's not bad (about 15mins) and to be honest it's a bit of exercise, which quite a lot of this nation could follow suit with. I think more people should actually use the two legs they were given and we'd see less build up of commuter cars parking everywhere. Saying that not everyone would be happy walking, mainly due to distance and lazyness. My gripe about this subject is that when I do walk, by the time I get to Wellington St/Nelson I have to walk in the road because there isn't enough space on the pavement for a pedestrian to walk by. This is plain WRONG and should be the main discussion that needs sorting. Imagine if you had a pram or young children? You'd have to walk in the road and that is totally outrageous. Completely unacceptable! The council should look at this before they act on any campaigns to stop the rat run. First off, sort the parking out of the residents around the area, then address the rat-run! Surely by law pedestrians are allowed to walk on the pavement! I thought pavements were for pedestrians and roads where for cars - seems back to front in Wellington/Nelson streets!
Reply ID 35623
Agree with what you say about walking and a 15 minute walk is nothing really. Anyone living in Bengeo and getting the train from HN should really be walking to the station if at all possible, since it's probably no more than 15 minutes from wherever you live. Some people will need to drive, I admit but there is a green argument here as well. A tip for you about walking down Nelson and Wellington. Don't. Go straight on down Byde Street and don't turn right. It looks as if you're going nowhere but in fact you walk down a little footpath past 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d and 1e Byde Street and come out by the Sccoby Doo bridge. It's quicker and there are no cars parked there.
Reply ID 35627
2929 Paul. Cheers, I've been taking that route now for a few days, it's a bit quicker too. There is a serious green issue with all these people driving such a short distance and a health issue also. This country is getting fatter and fatter, so why not get out and walk. It's nice to get some air in the lungs too. If the government bring in the tax for driving your car, I'm sure more people will start walking! Nobody will want to be charged £5 for driving half a mile. Besides, 15mins is nothing, the hill is a bit of a killer on the way home but the more you do it the easier it becomes. Was a little tricky in the snow last week though..
Reply ID 35631
I'd echo the views expressed in the last few posts. My partner walks every day from Bengeo St towing a wheely briefcase. Unfortuntely, heaving the thing on and off the pavement to get past parked cars has caused a serious back injury, requiring surgery. It's time to get rid of the restrictions and make these proper roads again, so that parking limits can be properly enforced. It's a bit rich to be complaining about people driving the route, when so many residents make it impossible to walk safely. What do these people want, a private area from which the rest of the public are excluded entirely?
Reply ID 35637
I think that's exactly what they want Shunt. Madness.
Reply ID 35645
I am sure if the parking problem was addressed with either the law enforced ie no double parking/ pavement parking/ obstructions etc as it is on other roads there would be less of a problem. trouble is there is never anyone around to enforce it, maybe one of the many town centre wardens could be re-assigned that area occasionally. The whole area from Tower Street to the station would benifit I am sure.
Reply ID 35651
and they'd make a fortune!
Reply ID 35652
Parking on pavements is down to the police. Maybe if we all sent an e-mail to Hetfordshire Constabulary they might realise. http://www.herts.police.uk/about/generalfeedback.php Go on, grass them up. You know you want to [;)]
Reply ID 35657
quote:Shunt I know you are a real local so I'm guessing you already know about the "steps" which cut off all the rat run. I dont know whereabouts in Bengeo st you are or how bad your partner's back is but I just thought I would suggest using the steps as it may prove a better/safer (although steep) route.
Originally posted by shunt
I'd echo the views expressed in the last few posts. My partner walks every day from Bengeo St towing a wheely briefcase. Unfortuntely, heaving the thing on and off the pavement to get past parked cars has caused a serious back injury, requiring surgery. It's time to get rid of the restrictions and make these proper roads again, so that parking limits can be properly enforced. It's a bit rich to be complaining about people driving the route, when so many residents make it impossible to walk safely. What do these people want, a private area from which the rest of the public are excluded entirely?
Reply ID 35658
I would have thought that lugging a heavy wheeled case up the steps would be just as bad (if not worse) than lugging it up and down pavements.
Reply ID 35662
Yeah, I wasn't sure......just a suggestion [:)]
Reply ID 35670
quote:Hope the other half is OK. Maybe that is want they do want - I call it selfish. Maybe repeating myself but the majority chose to live there - Why????
Originally posted by shunt
I'd echo the views expressed in the last few posts. My partner walks every day from Bengeo St towing a wheely briefcase. Unfortuntely, heaving the thing on and off the pavement to get past parked cars has caused a serious back injury, requiring surgery. It's time to get rid of the restrictions and make these proper roads again, so that parking limits can be properly enforced. It's a bit rich to be complaining about people driving the route, when so many residents make it impossible to walk safely. What do these people want, a private area from which the rest of the public are excluded entirely?
Reply ID 35676
quote:People choose to live here because they like Hertford, they like the houses, they like the fact it is a short walk to town and a shorter walk to the station. One of the questions to come out of that is why do so many of the households have two cars when it is the ability to walk to the required destination that makes it an attractive place to live? And then insist that the cars must be parked within 50 yards of their house or else it's not fair? Then you need to ask, why do drivers choose to drive through Byde Street when they know they will get frustrated at the cars parked up and 'blocking' the route? After all, there are other routes through the town and they are the designated legal ones. Whatever you may think of the current driving restrictions in the area, it is still the law. Clearly there will never be agreement, nor even a rational acceptance of the situation. In my opinion, everyone just needs to accept that there are more cars on the roads these days and the congestion seen is a consequence of that. The way of reducing traffic on the roads is not a debate we can influence by closing off the rat run but is only influenced at a much higher level. Personally, I would not buy a house here now knowing that parking was so limited. We were looking to move a number of years ago and a number of great places were discounted because of lack of parking. One of the possibilities is a residents parking scheme - one space per property for byde, wellington, nelson, balfour, port vale and molewood. Designated spaces one side and yellow lines down the other side of the road. Trouble is, it relies on the through traffic showing some manners. That done, I'd like to see it made into a 20mph zone because, no matter what people say, cars do accelerate quickly and do get above safe limits in this tight residential area.
Originally posted by Tiggerquote:Hope the other half is OK. Maybe that is want they do want - I call it selfish. Maybe repeating myself but the majority chose to live there - Why????
Originally posted by shunt
I'd echo the views expressed in the last few posts. My partner walks every day from Bengeo St towing a wheely briefcase. Unfortuntely, heaving the thing on and off the pavement to get past parked cars has caused a serious back injury, requiring surgery. It's time to get rid of the restrictions and make these proper roads again, so that parking limits can be properly enforced. It's a bit rich to be complaining about people driving the route, when so many residents make it impossible to walk safely. What do these people want, a private area from which the rest of the public are excluded entirely?
Reply ID 35677
Thanks for all the kind messages regarding my lovely lady's poorly back. She continues to walk (albeit in some pain) while we await a decision from the consultant. The alternative would be to drive, but we are both committed to limiting our vehicle use. As for people acelerating hard up Byde St., I have observed this myself in a few cases. I think it's a form of road rage at having endured the obstacle course thus far. Having said that, actual speeds are not as high as the impression given from the noise of a car accelerating uphill in first gear. As I said, I tried this, after there was an earlier comment on speeding. My car will reach 30mph in 2.4 seconds, but it is still very difficult to do so within the confines of the Byde St area because it's, not straight or flat enough and the road surface is too variable. 20mph is probably the practical maximum and even that is tough to reach. Most drivers, I have observed were do less than 10mph. Those which push it to 15mph look like reckless speeders! As for the signs and the barrier at Port Vale, I think there is some question whether they were ever in the public interest. However, it's difficult to suggest their removal retrospectively, since some residents would have taken them into account when buying.
Reply ID 35679
quote:I do feel sorry that your partner has a bad back that requires surgery. But your comments above are written in a way that puts all the blame onto the lower bengeo residents for parking on the pavements. You know full well that even if all the vehicles were legally parked - in fact even if there were no parked cars at all - she would still have to cross the roads and lug the bag up and down the kerbs. If she did not, her route would be Bengeo Street, right into Cross Road, right into Duncombe Road, right into Bengeo Street, right into Cross Road and so on. The parking situation has not helped but the journey would not have been a smooth one anyway.
Originally posted by shunt
I'd echo the views expressed in the last few posts. My partner walks every day from Bengeo St towing a wheely briefcase. Unfortuntely, heaving the thing on and off the pavement to get past parked cars has caused a serious back injury, requiring surgery. It's time to get rid of the restrictions and make these proper roads again, so that parking limits can be properly enforced. It's a bit rich to be complaining about people driving the route, when so many residents make it impossible to walk safely. What do these people want, a private area from which the rest of the public are excluded entirely?
Reply ID 35683
but it would be much easier. pushing a pram down these roads is lethal. there is no room on the pavements, it is too dangerous to walk on the road. hence i take the car to hertford county hospital for my little one's check ups. seems stupid when it's only a 20 min walk and i resent paying for parking, but it is not safe to walk on these roads. yes i could go via town, but it's a helluva lot further, and when you're rushing back for baby's next meal, every second counts!
Reply ID 35684
As I look down byde street now, the pavement is clear on the right hand side as you go down the hill. Therefore, you would not have to walk in the roads unless crossing over because you could cut out wellington and nelson by using the footpath at the bottom of byde street. There is, needless to say, some terrible parking on the street and some cars parked on the pavement on the other side.
Reply ID 35686
quote:I agree it has been a little better of late, possibly because of the outrage of walkers on this forum. As you pointed out, courtesy would go a long way to easing the problems caused by traffic and residents alike. Shame we all seem to have to stamp our feet so much to draw attention to the basics these days.
Originally posted by 2929paul
As I look down byde street now, the pavement is clear on the right hand side as you go down the hill. Therefore, you would not have to walk in the roads unless crossing over because you could cut out wellington and nelson by using the footpath at the bottom of byde street. There is, needless to say, some terrible parking on the street and some cars parked on the pavement on the other side.
Reply ID 35688
I regularly push baby Joby up and down Byde Street and Balfour Street in a pram that is only marginally smaller than shunt's old truck. I never have a problem with parked cars on these roads. As 2929paul points out, the pavement is generally left free on one side. Wellington Street and Nelson Street are a different matter, but you needn't go down there if you're going to the hospital, as the alley at the bottom of Byde Street is quicker and safer. I'm not saying that there is no parking problem in the area, but don't invent problems and issues where there are none. It sounds to me like you're looking for an easy excuse to take the car [}:)]
Reply ID 35691
Pavements are still meant for pedestrians though not for cars to "lip up" or whatever they call it so they can park both side of a road originally designed for parking nothing other than the odd horse and cart! I can remember Mr Archers horse and cart down there..................
Reply ID 35692
"After all, there are other routes through the town and they are the designated legal ones. Whatever you may think of the current driving restrictions in the area, it is still the law" And, if you live within the "No Access" area, you are perfectly entitled to drive down Byde St, etc.
Reply ID 35697
quote:Indeed you are, as you are if delivering or visiting a property in the area. In practice, even this has proved difficult because of the parking situation. I do not use the route unless I have a legal and valid reason for doing so. On the odd occasion that I do drive to the station (it really is once in a blue moon), I do use the longer and more complicated route, as ridiculous, protracted and wasteful as it it is.
Originally posted by buzz
"After all, there are other routes through the town and they are the designated legal ones. Whatever you may think of the current driving restrictions in the area, it is still the law" And, if you live within the "No Access" area, you are perfectly entitled to drive down Byde St, etc.
Reply ID 35722
quote:Actually, I think you'll find the signs say "Except for Access" not "No Access". What exactly does "Access" mean. Access to drive through to station, access to park, access to visit?
And, if you live within the "No Access" area, you are perfectly entitled to drive down Byde St, etc.
Reply ID 35723
Except for Access means you cannot enter the 'Except for Access' area unless you are accessing a premises etc within that area, not the other side of that area. Wow that was a lot of accesses.....
Reply ID 35724
quote:I know - the "s" key on my keyboard is quite worn out!
Originally posted by ~Sarah~
Except for Access means you cannot enter the 'Except for Access' area unless you are accessing a premises etc within that area, not the other side of that area. Wow that was a lot of accesses.....
Reply ID 35727
quote:In practice, uninforcible without stating the far limit of the exclusion or listing every street to which "access" applies. "Except for access" signs are for one street, but not an entire neighborhood. These signs were a simply placibo to quieten a previous campaign to make Byde Street an independent nation with it's own borders.
Originally posted by ~Sarah~
Except for Access means you cannot enter the 'Except for Access' area unless you are accessing a premises etc within that area, not the other side of that area. Wow that was a lot of accesses.....
Reply ID 35728
Yawn...
Reply ID 35729
Ditto, very, very, very, very boring indeed.
Reply ID 35730
quote:Bound to be after fifteen years of it.[:D]
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
Ditto, very, very, very, very boring indeed.
Reply ID 35731
So boring you choose to keep checking the thread....
Reply ID 35732
quote:You don't have auto update on your version of DHO then?[:)]
Originally posted by ~Sarah~
So boring you choose to keep checking the thread....
Reply ID 35733
quote:Would you describe it as an excess of accesses?[:)]
Originally posted by ~Sarah~
Except for Access means you cannot enter the 'Except for Access' area unless you are accessing a premises etc within that area, not the other side of that area. Wow that was a lot of accesses.....
Reply ID 35737
quote:I check in the hope that somebody has something interesting and informative to add to the topic, such as "when it is happening" or "its happened and the result is......"
Originally posted by ~Sarah~
So boring you choose to keep checking the thread....