Topic ID 3261
For those of you that have not seen the front page of this week's Mercury, Tesco are considering demolishing the existing store and replacing it with one twice the size, with rooftop parking, plus 50 new homes on the perimeter of the site. A new shopping arcade is also mooted. There is a large artist's impression on the front page. More at The Mercury: [url="http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/hertfordshiremercury/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=241976"]Tesco Plans Huge Expansion[/url]
Reply ID 46996
This is really worrying. This sounds like yet another very high building which will dominate the skyline for miles around. It doesn't seem possible that all of this can be fitted in to such a small area without going upwards. Hideous idea [xx(]
Reply ID 46997
What Next, Waitrose demolishing Birchley Green for a megastore???
Reply ID 46998
The best thing for Hertford Tesco shoppers would be if an Asda opened. That'd soon push the prices in that store down.
Reply ID 47000
i'd much rather the existing site is developed, rather than another site in town or worse on the edge of town in a field somewhere is used. Improved access, improved parking, it's not all bad. As always with these things though, it sounds like no details will be available until Jan when they hold the actual proper consultation.
Reply ID 47002
This is probably just a response to Sainsburys bidding to build on the McMullens site. Mine's bigger than yours etc...
Reply ID 47003
Any guesses where the "alternative premises ... during rebuilding" mentioned in the article would be?
Reply ID 47004
quote:The site of the current police station? And what will happen to these alternative premises once the new larger store has been opened?
Originally posted by Ray_by_the_Beane
Any guesses where the "alternative premises ... during rebuilding" mentioned in the article would be?
Reply ID 47005
quote:Exactly. The one thing we didn't predict when Sainsburys moved into the neighbourhood. I'd've thought that residents of Villiers Street are going to start feeling a bit intimidated now, with the proposed 'roof-top' parking. What happened to the plan of swapping with the police station?
Originally posted by aubend
This is probably just a response to Sainsburys bidding to build on the McMullens site. Mine's bigger than yours etc...
Reply ID 47006
quote:I think this was just speculation. Besides, the police at going to Pegs Lane.
Originally posted by Ted Badger What happened to the plan of swapping with the police station?
Reply ID 47008
quote:Improved access perhaps, but more parking means more cars = even more gridlock around Ware Road & Gascoyne way. It seems so many people want to visit the supermarket during the rush hour
Originally posted by codek2
i'd much rather the existing site is developed, rather than another site in town or worse on the edge of town in a field somewhere is used. Improved access, improved parking, it's not all bad. As always with these things though, it sounds like no details will be available until Jan when they hold the actual proper consultation.
Reply ID 47009
So, access is closer to the train station eh? can't load the google page on my work browser and as previously mentioned the january event in the corn exchange will reveal a scale model (with scaled down car/lorry sizes probably[:D]) so we can see exactly what they mean. Surely it would make the whole area less congested by having the in and out onto Ware Road and redesigning the whole traffic light/flow within that area instead of expecting drivers to go even further down towards the station. Will exiting cars go straight onto Ware Road or be provided with railway street and the one way system to make their escape? There's been alot of typing on here about how the Tesco Hertford is relatively cruddy compared to the other tescos nearby but i must agree with the possibility that the looming sainsbury's is a greater incetive for Tesco to suddenly announce a change than responding to their customers' observations. It's no secret the town needs more parking. It's also no secret that the bigger stores aren't interested in tiny listed shops, so if the development allows larger shops to come into Hertford then surely that's not bad thing - however, I hope it won't be seen as smaller version of an out of town shopping mall - there's a short walk into town but for some that's just too far. I suspect that the council will love the application not only because it is a supermarket doing the asking but also because (if memory serves from previous threads on this forum) they would like Hertford to be more like Bishops Stortford with a mix of large and small retail units. This is all well and good and the more re-inforcement Hertford gets with footfall and shoppers the better - though I still can't help thinking of what it's like to try and drive through town on a weekend when we're out for a spot of shopping... [:0]
Reply ID 47017
quote:Your observations are spot-on Mr.P ..... I just hope that the new store stocks the appropriate amount of corriander! ....
Originally posted by Mr P
So, access is closer to the train station eh? can't load the google page on my work browser and as previously mentioned the january event in the corn exchange will reveal a scale model (with scaled down car/lorry sizes probably[:D]) so we can see exactly what they mean. Surely it would make the whole area less congested by having the in and out onto Ware Road and redesigning the whole traffic light/flow within that area instead of expecting drivers to go even further down towards the station. Will exiting cars go straight onto Ware Road or be provided with railway street and the one way system to make their escape? There's been alot of typing on here about how the Tesco Hertford is relatively cruddy compared to the other tescos nearby but i must agree with the possibility that the looming sainsbury's is a greater incetive for Tesco to suddenly announce a change than responding to their customers' observations. It's no secret the town needs more parking. It's also no secret that the bigger stores aren't interested in tiny listed shops, so if the development allows larger shops to come into Hertford then surely that's not bad thing - however, I hope it won't be seen as smaller version of an out of town shopping mall - there's a short walk into town but for some that's just too far. I suspect that the council will love the application not only because it is a supermarket doing the asking but also because (if memory serves from previous threads on this forum) they would like Hertford to be more like Bishops Stortford with a mix of large and small retail units. This is all well and good and the more re-inforcement Hertford gets with footfall and shoppers the better - though I still can't help thinking of what it's like to try and drive through town on a weekend when we're out for a spot of shopping... [:0]
Reply ID 47021
As I live in Railway Street I can see traffic being a problem. Its already very busy by the mini roundabout in the mornings. Does Hertford need a bigger store anyway?
Reply ID 47022
quote:Most definitely yes. The store is very undersized for the catchment area it serves. They can barely keep it stocked - stuff goes out the front door faster than they can get it in the back sometimes! This has been discussed in other threads elsewhere,
Originally posted by Harry Palmer
Does Hertford need a bigger store anyway?
Reply ID 47023
I don't use it personally but it was obvious there would be a counter-attack on Sainsury's Plans. There are there to make money and defeat the opposition. The traffic would no doubt be worse but a least be focused where it already is, not just spreading it around.
Reply ID 47026
This is a recipie for disaster...... The store floor space will probably double if not treble, yet the parking spaces will only go up by around 50% or so. Add that to the 400 flats in and around Mead Lane, the CPZ around Railway Street and where is the traffic going to end up.......stuck on Ware Road going no where. Yes the Hertford store is probably too small, but sometimes we should just accept it and manage with what we've got rather demolish it and build something to the deterement of the whole town. If you then add on sainsbury's (another 300 parking spaces) and what ever development goes into the police station site, then Hertford is going to come to a stand still. And which retailers are going to take on the retail units......as there isn't much that a bigger Tesco's won't sell that an independant could sell in the area........ It will probably happen and I hope I'm wrong.
Reply ID 47027
Seen the picture... Aha - Fortress Tesco!! P
Reply ID 47028
Time to push for that bypass again me thinks!
Reply ID 47030
quote:Nah, that's just pandering to increased traffic as if it were inevitable. Make it easy and traffic will increase and Tesco and others will go on building mega-stores. Make it difficult to drive and they'll think again. Two birds with one stone by simply letting gridlock happen.
Originally posted by hertfordian
Time to push for that bypass again me thinks!
Reply ID 47031
quote:You obviously dont have to endure Gasycoyne way every day during the rush hours Shunt. If this goes ahead, expect Bengeo to get flooded with traffic using the rat run.
Originally posted by shuntquote:Nah, that's just pandering to increased traffic as if it were inevitable. Make it easy and traffic will increase and Tesco and others will go on building mega-stores. Make it difficult to drive and they'll think again. Two birds with one stone by simply letting gridlock happen.
Originally posted by hertfordian
Time to push for that bypass again me thinks!
Reply ID 47033
To me it looks awful and out of place opposite Bluecoats. Tescos like to retain control in areas once they are in and freeze out the competition. Personally I think it could damage the towns image which up to now has not really been spoilt by large chain stores
Reply ID 47040
quote:Indeed I don't, but like many who are in those queues, I have faster alternatives. The children benefit from a daily walk to SB school. The train takes me to London with a walk to the station. If it were not for the queues, I might be tempted to drive for both reasons and to visit Tesco too. At the moment I dont go there. Too far to walk comfortably with shopping, too awkward to drive. Hence the level of traffic is self-limiting.......unless we build more roads.
Originally posted by spitfirequote:You obviously dont have to endure Gasycoyne way every day during the rush hours Shunt. If this goes ahead, expect Bengeo to get flooded with traffic using the rat run.
Originally posted by shuntquote:Nah, that's just pandering to increased traffic as if it were inevitable. Make it easy and traffic will increase and Tesco and others will go on building mega-stores. Make it difficult to drive and they'll think again. Two birds with one stone by simply letting gridlock happen.
Originally posted by hertfordian
Time to push for that bypass again me thinks!
Reply ID 47047
I don't get it. There's a Tesco superstore 10 minutes south at Brookfield, another one 10 minutes west at Hatfield. Why put forward plans to expand a store in Hertford on a site where the roads are already congested? Oh that's right: Sainbury's want to put a store in Hertford.
Reply ID 47051
Thing is, this new store is still small in the grand scale of things. The Asda in the town I moved down from last year recently expanded from 90,000 sq (three times the size of this new store) to 130,000 sq ft.
Reply ID 47056
We all know that Tesco's will rule the world before long, all the time they offer the cheapest prices people will use them, they sell or supply nearly everything, they beat the suppliers into submission and put all small independent traders out of business, I'm not sure it's right, but you can't stop them.
Reply ID 47073
Tesco don't "beat suppliers into submission".....
Reply ID 47085
quote:Neither are they cheap, just very proficient at appearing so and drawing attention away from where the money you thought you saved was clawed back.
Originally posted by simcut
Tesco don't "beat suppliers into submission".....
Reply ID 47090
Depends how you define cheap. If you define cheap as being lower priced than their competitors then yes, they are cheap - this is proven by the yearly price survey in the grocer magazine - an industry standard test. If you mean cheap by the fact that we pay barely any more for our milk and eggs than they cost to produce, then yes, they're cheap. Whilst im sure not every single thing is bargain basement, but overall if you shop with intelligence you'll always get a fair price at tesco. Asda too.
Reply ID 47092
quote:Thing is, The Grocer doesn't say Tesco is cheaper... it says Asda is; and often by a substantial margin. If you want proof, simply enter what you would normally buy on this website - http://www.mysupermarket.com - and it'll compare how much the shops compare between Asda, Tesco, Sainsbury's and Ocado (Waitrose). I know people's shops are personal, but take mine just as an example. At Asda it costs about £55; Sainsbury's £75; Tesco £80; and Ocado £105. Quite a difference I'm sure you'll agree.
Originally posted by codek2
Depends how you define cheap. If you define cheap as being lower priced than their competitors then yes, they are cheap - this is proven by the yearly price survey in the grocer magazine - an industry standard test. If you mean cheap by the fact that we pay barely any more for our milk and eggs than they cost to produce, then yes, they're cheap. Whilst im sure not every single thing is bargain basement, but overall if you shop with intelligence you'll always get a fair price at tesco. Asda too.
Reply ID 47095
quote:Can't argue with that. The big players are very good at directing shopping habits to suit them rather than adapting to how people would otherwise shop and the most successful at it alwys come out cheapest in industry surveys. However, if one ignores pack sizes and the marketed goods and buy only what you need and want, they do less well, particularly on unbranded base ingredients. If you always shop as supermarkets encourage us to do, the supermarkets will do it best. Likewise, if you compare a simple list of standard products, they will also seem to do well. So, if all the meat stocked in another retailer is of the same quality as Tesco Finest, but slightly cheaper, Tesco will still come out best in a comparison of pork loin prices, because the majority of pork that they sell is not "finest".
Originally posted by codek2
Depends how you define cheap. If you define cheap as being lower priced than their competitors then yes, they are cheap - this is proven by the yearly price survey in the grocer magazine - an industry standard test. If you mean cheap by the fact that we pay barely any more for our milk and eggs than they cost to produce, then yes, they're cheap. Whilst im sure not every single thing is bargain basement, but overall if you shop with intelligence you'll always get a fair price at tesco. Asda too.
Reply ID 47096
quote:absolutely, definately a huge difference. It's interesting though that the grocer recently forced Asda to remove an advert they had claiming to be cheaper than Tesco... because according to them it wasnt true. I guess the only way to win is to shop at each and pick and choose :) for that difference tho i'm tempted to head to asda, hatfield has one doesnt it, and do a massive shop, stock up for winter !
Originally posted by Brockmanquote:Thing is, The Grocer doesn't say Tesco is cheaper... it says Asda is; and often by a substantial margin. If you want proof, simply enter what you would normally buy on this website - http://www.mysupermarket.com - and it'll compare how much the shops compare between Asda, Tesco, Sainsbury's and Ocado (Waitrose). I know people's shops are personal, but take mine just as an example. At Asda it costs about £55; Sainsbury's £75; Tesco £80; and Ocado £105. Quite a difference I'm sure you'll agree.
Originally posted by codek2
Depends how you define cheap. If you define cheap as being lower priced than their competitors then yes, they are cheap - this is proven by the yearly price survey in the grocer magazine - an industry standard test. If you mean cheap by the fact that we pay barely any more for our milk and eggs than they cost to produce, then yes, they're cheap. Whilst im sure not every single thing is bargain basement, but overall if you shop with intelligence you'll always get a fair price at tesco. Asda too.
Reply ID 47097
Must admit I find Tesco at Hatfield the best as they always have everything I want. Tried Asda, Morrisons, Sainsbury, but always come away short. Tesco have such a variety of sizes,for an example, we like Twinings everyday tea, can buy them in a 160 bag box, but Adsa only sell in 80 bag box and we drink a lot of tea!! happens with 250g Bovril which you can only get at Tesco, smaller sizes at Asda and Morrison, so must admit I've given up with the others and gone back. It's really not worth trapesing from one to another to get the cheapest of whatever, fuel costs more than the saving. However I must admit I prefer the Asda store at Stevenage as it has wide isles, but I suppose it has wide isles 'cos it has less products !!
Reply ID 47106
Sometimes cost isn't the only criteria when people choose where to do their shopping.
Reply ID 47126
I get fed up with people whining about the gridlock on the A414. There is one cause of this gridlock and that is parents taking/collecting their fat lazy kids to/from school. Why doesnt East Herts just do a school bus service? Better still, penailise every parent who lives within a mile of their childs school that takes/collects them in a car? Off-topic rant, but very true. As for increasing the size of Tesco's, I'm all for it. As Steve said, they are constantly selling out of stuff as fast as they can stock the shelves. I also don't believe that they will stock items that would be prohibit other retailers from occupying the other stores. Yes, Tesco sell Clothing, but it's own-brand and inferior quality. Yes they sell electrical items, but it's normally older models (taking TV's as an example) and they're not normally that cheap.
Reply ID 47137
thefair, you are one hell of a wise man / woman. I so agree with you. Gets on my bloody nerves that parents that live in the Foxholes Estate drive their kids to school down the bloody hill by the Police Station, ruddy joke!
Reply ID 47146
quote:Maybe some would be going that way to work anyway though?
Originally posted by simcut
thefair, you are one hell of a wise man / woman. I so agree with you. Gets on my bloody nerves that parents that live in the Foxholes Estate drive their kids to school down the bloody hill by the Police Station, ruddy joke!
Reply ID 47148
quote:And that stops their children from walking how?
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:Maybe some would be going that way to work anyway though?
Originally posted by simcut
thefair, you are one hell of a wise man / woman. I so agree with you. Gets on my bloody nerves that parents that live in the Foxholes Estate drive their kids to school down the bloody hill by the Police Station, ruddy joke!
Reply ID 47150
as a director of a company in dicker mill i am concerned about the trafic and the road usage while the new tescos is built and once the new building is opened a few years ago the trafic was really bad in this area causing customers to go elsewhere and also for shoppers to use the back road around tescos as a rat run. i can see this happening again how do you propose to stop this from happening remembering that there is a new housing development in mill lane and that the new houses that you will have as a frontage will also require easy access rather than residents having to que to get to there own homes only to find retail people from your new branch parking in there alotted bays due to heavy traffic queing to get to your car park if you look at busy times say 8 am and 5pm now and on saturdays its very hard already to travel down mill lane due to people entering tescos and leaving being stuck at the traffic lights.
Reply ID 47151
Traffic is a thing we have to deal with. Today's society almost enforces it. Everyone has issues with traffic flow, etc from their journey's, homes, business but take it away and someone else gets the problem. People travelling to work moan about the congestion but they are part of the congestion. If there is an unfortunate accident then everyone complains. I agree that it is a pain but people do need to move from their homes for whatever reason. The problem must sit with the planners. Saying that, if new road links were built then the disruption would be moaned about again. It's a no win situation.
Reply ID 47154
Generally, as a rule, Tesco avoids split floor stores at all costs. Its reduces sales by upto 40%. Occasionally it works, but usually on very big sites such as their stores in Weston Favell or Kensington.
Reply ID 47159
quote:It is, however, the nature of humans to problem solve. Hence, when travel was more difficult, services became available within easy reach, business was sited where communications were good and there was a local labour force, supply of raw materials and customers. Because the car and truck was invented, we re-designed society to need it. It would be wise to not continue to design with the car as an assumed facility. Yes, Tesco, you can have your supermarket, but don't expect extra road systems to accomodate it. Still viable?
Originally posted by Tigger
Traffic is a thing we have to deal with. Today's society almost enforces it. Everyone has issues with traffic flow, etc from their journey's, homes, business but take it away and someone else gets the problem. People travelling to work moan about the congestion but they are part of the congestion. If there is an unfortunate accident then everyone complains. I agree that it is a pain but people do need to move from their homes for whatever reason. The problem must sit with the planners. Saying that, if new road links were built then the disruption would be moaned about again. It's a no win situation.
Reply ID 47161
quote:That's not strictly true, there are towns, Runcorn for example which does not suffer from Traffic problems, partly because of its Expressway system. Sure it suffers traffic problems at the bridge but that's because you have people traveling from the Wirral and Liverpool to avoid the tolls on the tunnels. But of course, there is another solution... Build it out of town... but oh no... because that'll be moaned about too ;)
Originally posted by Tigger
Traffic is a thing we have to deal with. Today's society almost enforces it. Everyone has issues with traffic flow, etc from their journey's, homes, business but take it away and someone else gets the problem. People travelling to work moan about the congestion but they are part of the congestion. If there is an unfortunate accident then everyone complains. I agree that it is a pain but people do need to move from their homes for whatever reason. The problem must sit with the planners. Saying that, if new road links were built then the disruption would be moaned about again. It's a no win situation.
Reply ID 47166
quote:It doesn't, granted, but how many parents in this day and age would be totally happy letting their kids as young as 5 and 6 walk to school unaccompanied while they go off to work?
Originally posted by Brockmanquote:And that stops their children from walking how?
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:Maybe some would be going that way to work anyway though?
Originally posted by simcut
thefair, you are one hell of a wise man / woman. I so agree with you. Gets on my bloody nerves that parents that live in the Foxholes Estate drive their kids to school down the bloody hill by the Police Station, ruddy joke!
Reply ID 47169
quote:The only increased risk to children's safety, is traffic. Every other risk is more or less at the same level as it always was.
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:It doesn't, granted, but how many parents in this day and age would be totally happy letting their kids as young as 5 and 6 walk to school unaccompanied while they go off to work?
Originally posted by Brockmanquote:And that stops their children from walking how?
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:Maybe some would be going that way to work anyway though?
Originally posted by simcut
thefair, you are one hell of a wise man / woman. I so agree with you. Gets on my bloody nerves that parents that live in the Foxholes Estate drive their kids to school down the bloody hill by the Police Station, ruddy joke!
Reply ID 47170
quote:Oh, of course, I'd never agree with anyone letting a primary school child walk by themselves. However, when it comes to secondary school kids, then there is no excuse.
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:It doesn't, granted, but how many parents in this day and age would be totally happy letting their kids as young as 5 and 6 walk to school unaccompanied while they go off to work?
Originally posted by Brockmanquote:And that stops their children from walking how?
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:Maybe some would be going that way to work anyway though?
Originally posted by simcut
thefair, you are one hell of a wise man / woman. I so agree with you. Gets on my bloody nerves that parents that live in the Foxholes Estate drive their kids to school down the bloody hill by the Police Station, ruddy joke!
Reply ID 47172
Please return to topic
Reply ID 47180
quote:I agree Sonic. There seems to be little cosideration of the impact of a bigger store on the traffic to Dicker Mill. One rule for Tesco!
Originally posted by sonic
as a director of a company in dicker mill i am concerned about the trafic and the road usage while the new tescos is built and once the new building is opened a few years ago the trafic was really bad in this area causing customers to go elsewhere and also for shoppers to use the back road around tescos as a rat run. i can see this happening again how do you propose to stop this from happening remembering that there is a new housing development in mill lane and that the new houses that you will have as a frontage will also require easy access rather than residents having to que to get to there own homes only to find retail people from your new branch parking in there alotted bays due to heavy traffic queing to get to your car park if you look at busy times say 8 am and 5pm now and on saturdays its very hard already to travel down mill lane due to people entering tescos and leaving being stuck at the traffic lights.