Topic ID 3996
From the Mercury website - "A MALE pedestrian is believed to have suffered serious injuries after he was hit by a van near Hertford this afternoon (Monday December 8). Two ambulances raced to the scene on London Road after police reported the collision involving a white Citroen Berlingo. Herts police, which were called just before 4.30pm, closed the road from the roundabout at the A414" How may more accidents before they do something about the speed of the cars along there ?
Reply ID 57933
if the ambulance drivers "raced" to the scene, using your logic shouldn't they be dead or seriously injured too?
Reply ID 57934
newgirl -How do you know that speed was the cause of this accident?
Reply ID 57940
Obviously I don't know that speed was the cause but I do know that this road has more than your average number of accidents on it and speed IS an issue on this road. I have seen several near misses from speeding cars and use this road several times daily. What's the problem? I am simply pointing out that there was yet another accident there and speculating that the race track mentality cause many of them.
Reply ID 57941
Why do speeding cars cause an accident? If anything, it's the cars pulling out in front of them that cause an accident because they're not checking their mirrors properly.
Reply ID 57942
OK - I give up. Its obviously loony day in Hertford. All drive along at 100mph and let's hope none of you hit anybody else.
Reply ID 57944
I live off Mangrove Road and join the London Road many times a day. As you look up the hill to see a gap in the traffic its VERY hard to judge the speed of the oncoming cars. The speed limit is 40 but virtually no-one is going less than 50. Occasionally cars are still going at over 60+...and when you pull out in good faith they appear very quickly behind you and slam on the horn. Who knows why this unfortunate man came to be hurt but moving one of the Ware Road cameras to just over the crest of London Road into town would in my view help reduce the numerous accidents on this hill each year.
Reply ID 57945
It might be speed, but it also could be something as simple as a nail in a car tyre? We have seen the fatal effects this has had before, notwithstanding the Mercurys attempt to blame the road and everything else under the sun.. Speed does not kill in isolation. Crap driving and crap car maintenance certainly do.
Reply ID 57950
quote:Don't give up 'Newgirl' - your thread is very valid. You just got a couple of silly replies to it - thats all. [;)]
Originally posted by newgirl
OK - I give up. Its obviously loony day in Hertford. All drive along at 100mph and let's hope none of you hit anybody else.
Reply ID 57951
Speed is too often a contributing factor in road fatalities. As Frenchie says, London Road is particularly dangerous especially at that junction. Turning right there you have to cross two lanes of traffic where too many idiots are coming down the hill at 50, 60 or even more. A couple of speed cameras would be very useful there.
Reply ID 57953
Perhaps this horrible accident is a result of trying to cross a busy dual carriage way instead of using the underpass??? There is nothing in the article that says the man was on the pavement or the road when he unfortunately got hit.
Reply ID 57954
Thank you - I was beginning to feel very despondent but have checked out the forum members and realised it wasn't personal [;)] I live in one of the side roads going up the hill and I have real problems getting out of the road because people are already SPEEDING by the time they reach my road and there is no gap for me. Don't even get me started on the clever dicks who take the "short cut" up the side of the fire station and steal the gap !!!! If the traffic lights are off, I can sit there for ages and eventually have to pull out and force people to slow down. When I try to turn IN to the side road, I have people speeding so close behind me that they can't see my indicators or brake lights and nearly end up in my boot ! Then I try to cut across the central reservation gap into Mangrove Road where, as Frenchie says, it is very difficult to judge the speed of two lanes of traffic, especially when you have the low winter sun coming over the hill. More often than not, I end up driving up to the Mercedes roundabout and going all the way round it - avoiding the poor school kids trying to cross the road on the way back down. I live here so I know how many accidents there are along it - minor or otherwise. I have lost count of the number of times I have had to ask the Police to let me through the closed road so I can get home. It is only a matter of time before someone dies here
Reply ID 57955
When you write speeding in upper case, it adds substantial weight to your point.
Reply ID 57956
I belive its known as SHOUTING - and yes, I meant to do it [:p]
Reply ID 57957
I think newgirl is trying to emphasise "speeding" rather than "at speed", ie committing a road traffic offence rather than travelling fast (a relative term).
Reply ID 57961
Maybe the problem is that it's a dual carriageway and main trunk route. Expecting to be able to cross such a route without risk, on foot without the aid of an underpass or bridge, is a little unrealistic. There is a reason why a large house can be bought relatively cheaply on London Road or Foxholes and this is it. One is isolated by proximity of the road system. Presumably houses in Nth london which line the M1 are also slightly lower priced.
Reply ID 57962
quote:. I have a number of concerns: 1) "Don't even get me started on the clever dicks who take the "short cut" up the side of the fire station and steal the gap" I do this and will continue to do this. Sorry. Don't live next to such a busy road when you choose your next property. 2)"If the traffic lights are off, I can sit there for ages and eventually have to pull out and force people to slow down" This sounds very dangerous indeed and will result in you being broadsided in the not too distant future. Mark my words. I will have no sympathy for you. Further you do this in some parts of London, and people *will* drive into you in their £100 car. Then they will probably get out of their car and shoot you. Your choice. 3)"When I try to turn IN to the side road, I have people speeding so close behind me that they can't see my indicators or brake lights and nearly end up in my boot" Are you sure your indicators and brake lights are working? If you were say turning into Park Road, Stanley road etc, my car could easily stop dead within seconds. I suggest the fact that people end up in your boot because you don’t give correct or timely indications of your intentions. 4) "it is very difficult to judge the speed of two lanes of traffic, especially when you have the low winter sun coming over the hill" With a bit more experience you will be able to do this - I don't find it that hard. I'll give you a clue. If the car is moving at a speed where your car can't fit in the gap in front of it, then don’t' pull out. I also suggest you invest in some sunglasses and make use of the visor in your car. 5)"More often than not, I end up driving up to the Mercedes roundabout and going all the way round it - avoiding the poor school kids trying to cross the road on the way back down" Any child that tries to cross where cars can legally drive at 70 MPH nearer the roundabout (if memory serves) needs their head examining. On a separate but related topic who remembers the Mercury’s "make it safe campaign". I'll remind you; http://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/campaigns/2006/08aug/060831hert.shtml I don't remember seeing any publicity about there being a nail in the cars tyre and this being a major reason the car crashed. The speed limit had little to no bearing on the fact that car was a death trap.
Originally posted by newgirl
Thank you - I was beginning to feel very despondent but have checked out the forum members and realised it wasn't personal [;)]
Reply ID 57963
Does anyone know exactly where in London Rd the accident occured? The report says 'near' Hertford so is a bit vague IMO. I am assuming that 'near' Hertford rules out the fire station end, so are we talking up near the Mercedes garage or down the road towards Hertford Heath? Newgirl, I agree with most of your sentiments, although not the bit about cutting up by the fire station - its a perfectly legal manoeuvre.
Reply ID 57967
Exiled in Reading - Apart from to say that I have more than 20 years driving experience, know for a fact that my lights are working and learnt to drive on the streets of Haringey - I am going to ignore the rest. Hi Leo - I know the fire station manoeuvre is legal, it's just annoying and causes problems for others. At the most, it can only save seconds ??
Reply ID 57969
quote:It's with regret then that I conclude that experience does not automatically equate with competence.
Originally posted by newgirl
Exiled in Reading - Apart from to say that I have more than 20 years driving experience, know for a fact that my lights are working and learnt to drive on the streets of Haringey - I am going to ignore the rest. Hi Leo - I know the fire station manoeuvre is legal, it's just annoying and causes problems for others. At the most, it can only save seconds ??
Reply ID 57970
quote:What a pleasant chap you are
Originally posted by exiled_in_Readingquote:. I have a number of concerns: 1) "Don't even get me started on the clever dicks who take the "short cut" up the side of the fire station and steal the gap" I do this and will continue to do this. Sorry. Don't live next to such a busy road when you choose your next property. 2)"If the traffic lights are off, I can sit there for ages and eventually have to pull out and force people to slow down" This sounds very dangerous indeed and will result in you being broadsided in the not too distant future. Mark my words. I will have no sympathy for you. Further you do this in some parts of London, and people *will* drive into you in their £100 car. Then they will probably get out of their car and shoot you. Your choice. 3)"When I try to turn IN to the side road, I have people speeding so close behind me that they can't see my indicators or brake lights and nearly end up in my boot" Are you sure your indicators and brake lights are working? If you were say turning into Park Road, Stanley road etc, my car could easily stop dead within seconds. I suggest the fact that people end up in your boot because you don’t give correct or timely indications of your intentions. 4) "it is very difficult to judge the speed of two lanes of traffic, especially when you have the low winter sun coming over the hill" With a bit more experience you will be able to do this - I don't find it that hard. I'll give you a clue. If the car is moving at a speed where your car can't fit in the gap in front of it, then don’t' pull out. I also suggest you invest in some sunglasses and make use of the visor in your car. 5)"More often than not, I end up driving up to the Mercedes roundabout and going all the way round it - avoiding the poor school kids trying to cross the road on the way back down" Any child that tries to cross where cars can legally drive at 70 MPH nearer the roundabout (if memory serves) needs their head examining. On a separate but related topic who remembers the Mercury’s "make it safe campaign". I'll remind you; http://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/campaigns/2006/08aug/060831hert.shtml I don't remember seeing any publicity about there being a nail in the cars tyre and this being a major reason the car crashed. The speed limit had little to no bearing on the fact that car was a death trap.
Originally posted by newgirl
Thank you - I was beginning to feel very despondent but have checked out the forum members and realised it wasn't personal [;)]
Reply ID 57973
I would be considerably unpleasant if my car was written off as a result of a dozy vigilante pulling out on me because she doesn’t have enough patience to wait, or enough money to buy a house in a road that isn’t adjacent to a main thoroughfare. Still, I am a firm believer in Darwinism, so if she is true to form, her time will come in due course.
Reply ID 57974
quote:The problem is simple - people are speeding on a dangerous piece of road. Yes it is a trunk route and it is going to be hard to cross and house prices do reflect the proximity to the road etc..but the reduction from 70mph to 40mph enforced is due to the increase in possible accidents because of the approaching side roads, entering a built up area and the roundabout at the bottom of a steep hill. There could be many reasons for crashes on this piece of road but I believe observing the speed, enforced by a camera would be constructive in reducing accidents.
Originally posted by shunt
Maybe the problem is that it's a dual carriageway and main trunk route. Expecting to be able to cross such a route without risk, on foot without the aid of an underpass or bridge, is a little unrealistic. There is a reason why a large house can be bought relatively cheaply on London Road or Foxholes and this is it. One is isolated by proximity of the road system. Presumably houses in Nth london which line the M1 are also slightly lower priced.
Reply ID 57977
A Camera would certainly boost the coffers of the Police. Maybe not such a bad idea, would get the "Rat Runners" who use the A1/A414 everytime the M25 slows up! However, the "speeders" will simply slow for the camera, and once past the markings speed up again, moving the problems further up.
Reply ID 57978
quote:If the lights are off it can be very beneficial.
Originally posted by newgirl Hi Leo - I know the fire station manoeuvre is legal, it's just annoying and causes problems for others. At the most, it can only save seconds ??
Reply ID 57979
quote:Oooh, you little troll! [:D]
Originally posted by spitfire
A Camera would certainly boost the coffers of the Police. Maybe not such a bad idea, would get the "Rat Runners" who use the A1/A414 everytime the M25 slows up!
Reply ID 57984
quote:I think you are quite unpleasant enough, thank you. What's up - get your latest speeding ticket through the door? [}:)]
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
I would be considerably unpleasant if my car was written off as a result of a dozy vigilante pulling out on me because she doesn’t have enough patience to wait, or enough money to buy a house in a road that isn’t adjacent to a main thoroughfare. Still, I am a firm believer in Darwinism, so if she is true to form, her time will come in due course.
Reply ID 57987
newgirl - if you have done your research thoroughly, you will have found out that exiled is someone who believes that speed is not an issue when it comes to road safety. According to exiled, the problem lies with our driving ability rather than driving within the designated speed limits. He is, of course, correct in identifying the need for driving ability but to ignore the effects of speed shows a certain arrogance. If Darwinism is true, perhaps unnecessary speeders will become extinct in time? exiled, of course, is a perfect driver and just about everyone else is not. Perhaps he has an accident free driving record, (except for the times when other drivers have caused him to crash, swerve, or make dangerous manouevres) I don't know. Unlike you and me, he does not have 20 years of driving experience but that does not matter because he is already a perfect driver. (I hear that Jeremy Clarkson has already lined him up as his replacement on Top Gear.) I am not a perfect driver. I have had a number of accidents over the years and I'm terrible at parking. But I do stick to the speed limits, except occasionally you might find me doing over 70 on the motorways. And that doesn't necessarily mean I do 40mph if that is the limit. If the conditions mean that is not a suitable speed, I slow down accordingly. I don't want a medal, experience has just taught me that it's safer, that there's no need to drive around in such a hurry and that it saves you money! Whatever the cause of the accident on the London Road, I am in full agreement with you about the speed of cars using that road, which I believe is now 40mph all the way to/from the Mercedes roundabout.
Reply ID 57990
quote:Quite unbelievable hypocrisy.
Originally posted by 2929paul
newgirl - if you have done your research thoroughly, you will have found out that exiled is someone who believes that speed is not an issue when it comes to road safety. According to exiled, the problem lies with our driving ability rather than driving within the designated speed limits. He is, of course, correct in identifying the need for driving ability but to ignore the effects of speed shows a certain arrogance. If Darwinism is true, perhaps unnecessary speeders will become extinct in time? exiled, of course, is a perfect driver and just about everyone else is not. Perhaps he has an accident free driving record, (except for the times when other drivers have caused him to crash, swerve, or make dangerous manouevres) I don't know. Unlike you and me, he does not have 20 years of driving experience but that does not matter because he is already a perfect driver. (I hear that Jeremy Clarkson has already lined him up as his replacement on Top Gear.) I am not a perfect driver. I have had a number of accidents over the years and I'm terrible at parking. But I do stick to the speed limits, except occasionally you might find me doing over 70 on the motorways. And that doesn't necessarily mean I do 40mph if that is the limit. If the conditions mean that is not a suitable speed, I slow down accordingly. I don't want a medal, experience has just taught me that it's safer, that there's no need to drive around in such a hurry and that it saves you money! Whatever the cause of the accident on the London Road, I am in full agreement with you about the speed of cars using that road, which I believe is now 40mph all the way to/from the Mercedes roundabout.
Reply ID 57993
I think the accident was just around the corner on the hertford heath road, from the mercedes roundabout, if that makes sense. Certainly the road was closed there last night by the police about 6pm ish.
Reply ID 57994
Two pages of quite heated and sometimes quite amusing discussion, but only two posters, Blakey and Shunt have addressed the issue in the article: This was a pedestrian crossing a dual carriageway! Even if he was hit at 30 mph he would be in a pretty bad way, and if he was hit by a vehicle doing the legal 40mph limit he could be in a very bad way. Although there can be some pretty daft driving on this section of road, speed is not the issue in this case. If this chap had been hit at the speed that some are suggesting people drive at here, I doubt there would be much left of him.
Reply ID 57995
You are right, of course. It isn't a great road to try and cross but there are always people trying to do it because it's quite a long way down the hill to the underpass and back up again if you are going from Foxholes to Simon Balle for instance, or the Industrial Estate to Hertford Heath. Or just don't fancy braving the underpass in the dark. Perhaps a pedestrian crossing could help everyone out?
Reply ID 58000
My inference from the online mercury report was that the problem was on the 70MPH stretch between Rush Green and the Mercedes Roundabout. The only evidence I have to support this is that the report cites that traffic was trying to get round via Hertford Heath. Also I know that this sounds cruel, but the fact that the gentleman has survived suggests that the car which hit him may not have been going at or above the speed limit at the point of impact. Whilst appropriate speed is a factor in road safety, reducing the speed limit and installing cameras just frustrates and alienates drivers. A road could be safe to negotiate at 100MPH on a dry, clear summers day yet it could be lethal at 40MPH if there was ice/snow/serious mechanical defects with your car etc. Speed cameras are not the answer for London Road and despite appearing Obnoxious and Rude most of the time Exiled in Reading does make a few good points. The real solution to make London Road a more resident friendly place is firstly to build a bypass for Hertford. Speed does not kill - bad driving and pedestrian stupidity are the main culprits. And yes driving too fast is bad driving, so is pulling out in front of a moving car in order to slow it down!
Reply ID 58001
Perhaps I should just clarify this - I have never pulled out in front of a moving car but I have pulled out when I can see cars just emerging from the roundabout. I have no choice but to do this and it gives them a chance to abandon their quest to reach 60 before the gradient starts. Then they can either follow me up the hill or move over to the other lane. I think you will find that everyone using these side roads does that. Ideally I would wait until I could see no cars coming at all - but that never happens. There is no hint of danger but it probably does frustrate those who were attempting to reach 4th gear before Park Road. Can't believe you really thought I would pull out IN FRONT of moving cars - I never said that. [:0]
Reply ID 58002
See my comments - It was on the hertford heath road, not on the actual a414. Unless there were two road closures with ambulances last night. So in this case, a bypass would have made no difference.
Reply ID 58003
Today I witnessed a car driving along the pavement in Park Road to speed around a car coming the other way! I did report it to the Police non-emergency line with the registration but don't know what will happen. I get the impression that there's a general increase in impatience by both cars and pedestrians, but maybe I'm getting old. People driving too fast, inconsiderately and pedestrians not waiting to use crossing (where they are available at appropriate locations). My pet peev is trying to cross the double set of lights on the Ware Road near Tesco - in the evening the crossing is regularly blocked and I can't get my buggy through the non-existent gap. And newgirl; I've had the same problems getting in and out of Park Road - one day I thought a lorry was going to take me with him up the London Road, despite fully functioning brakes and indicators!
Reply ID 58004
quote:Sadly for you, there are some places which are for pedestrians and traffic, some places for just pedestrians and some just for vehicles. London Road is the latter, as indicated by the lack of pavements opposite or in the central reservation, and the lack of provision of crossing points. These are deliberately omitted because this road is always considered unsafe to cross on foot. If a significant number insist on risking their lives trying to do so, the likely result will be the addition of pedestrian barriers like those at the bottom of the hill. Even then there will be some who climb over them.
Originally posted by newgirl
You are right, of course. It isn't a great road to try and cross but there are always people trying to do it because it's quite a long way down the hill to the underpass and back up again if you are going from Foxholes to Simon Balle for instance, or the Industrial Estate to Hertford Heath. Or just don't fancy braving the underpass in the dark. Perhaps a pedestrian crossing could help everyone out?
Reply ID 58006
There is actually a crossing point just above the Brookside turning. It's not one I would want to use on a regular basis though!
Reply ID 58012
It's sad to see the tired old "Speed doesn't kill" mantra being touted here. It's not rocket science; the faster you're travelling then the worse your accident will be if something happens in front of you. Even if you have 'evolved' into being one of the best drivers in the world. 40mph is more than fast enough for London Road no matter what the conditions. Speed cameras please! [:D]
Reply ID 58013
quote:Indeed it isn't rocket science. Speed in itself does not kill. Momentum, braking force, friction, driver reaction time and human error (both inside and outside the car) have a bearing on the outcome. For instance I own a car which will stop in half the distance of a Renault Clio, including average reaction time. If I were doing 40mph and the Renault 30mph and a pedestrian ran out in front of us at the same distance away, the Renault may hit him at considerable speed, whilst I might stop with yards to spare. Not that I advocate speeding. The speed limits are there to protect us from bad drivers, bad pedestrians and bad cars in any combination of the three and have to be set to the worst case scenario.
Originally posted by dennismoore
It's sad to see the tired old "Speed doesn't kill" mantra being touted here. It's not rocket science; the faster you're travelling then the worse your accident will be if something happens in front of you. Even if you have 'evolved' into being one of the best drivers in the world. 40mph is more than fast enough for London Road no matter what the conditions. Speed cameras please! [:D]
Reply ID 58015
Speed camera's probably cause more accidents than they prevent, due to people braking heavily when they haven't realised it's there until the last minute. I think there are very few valid locations where they reduce accidents, rather than earn police revenue. Such as the stretch of dual carriageway between the railway bridge and Hertingfordbury roundabout. Has there ever been an accident there? Not in the 5 years I've lived on that road there hasn't, yet it's regulalry frequented by the money-spinning camera van.
Reply ID 58017
The irony is that the people who are asking for the cameras to be installed are probably the ones that will be caught out by them...
Reply ID 58023
The government says fact Speed Kills which ever way you wish to interpret that, I am sure there use to be the police camera van parked up on the middle of the hill on the grass but I have not seen it there for some time now, I do see it in Hertford Heath now and again but any one speeding excessively is a bad driver!
Reply ID 58025
quote:Let's get some perspective on this. Nobody knows the circumstances of this accident. It seems, but is not certain, that it happened on the section of road where the national speed limit applies. There is no evidence that the driver was speeding or that ,if that was the case, that the outcome was changed by that. There is no indication of fault, driver or pedestrian and governments often make mis-leading or inaccurate statements (see catalytic convertors/seat belt stats/motorcycle accident stats/cycle helmets/lead free petrol....for examples).
Originally posted by night owl
The government says fact Speed Kills which ever way you wish to interpret that, I am sure there use to be the police camera van parked up on the middle of the hill on the grass but I have not seen it there for some time now, I do see it in Hertford Heath now and again but any one speeding excessively is a bad driver!
Reply ID 58029
I'm surprised at the attitude of some of these posts. If this is the mentality that's taken out onto the roads then we're lucky there aren't a damn site more fatalities.
Reply ID 58031
Agree with shunt. After any accident, some people tend to speculate. There may be no facts, and a certain amount of speculation can be healthy, but only if it makes people think twice and maybe change their own behaviour based on what may have happened. It is, however, important to acknowledge that it is only speculation if you do decide to discuss specific accidents on public forums without evidence. And be mindful of who might be reading. Drive safely everybody.
Reply ID 58032
quote:Totally agree
Originally posted by Ted Badger
I'm surprised at the attitude of some of these posts. If this is the mentality that's taken out onto the roads then we're lucky there aren't a damn site more fatalities.
Reply ID 58034
quote:Sorry guys, I don't see what you're getting at. Apart from some hasty attempts to pre-judge blame to fit peoples own beliefs and interests, there has been little which might encourage dangerous practice in this thread. Unless of course you mean social, philisophical and political danger.
Originally posted by Frenchiequote:Totally agree
Originally posted by Ted Badger
I'm surprised at the attitude of some of these posts. If this is the mentality that's taken out onto the roads then we're lucky there aren't a damn site more fatalities.
Reply ID 58041
quote:Try lack of courtesy for starters
Originally posted by shuntquote:Sorry guys, I don't see what you're getting at. Apart from some hasty attempts to pre-judge blame to fit peoples own beliefs and interests, there has been little which might encourage dangerous practice in this thread. Unless of course you mean social, philisophical and political danger.
Originally posted by Frenchiequote:Totally agree
Originally posted by Ted Badger
I'm surprised at the attitude of some of these posts. If this is the mentality that's taken out onto the roads then we're lucky there aren't a damn site more fatalities.
Reply ID 58043
quote:Perhaps the greatest lack of courtesy is to suggest a (for all we know so far) blameless driver caused this accident by speeding. Already in shock from having hit a pedestrian, how is it right to pre-judge him/her on a public forum? How politely or rudely something is expressed does not necessary change the content, just how it is received.
Originally posted by Stevequote:Try lack of courtesy for starters
Originally posted by shuntquote:Sorry guys, I don't see what you're getting at. Apart from some hasty attempts to pre-judge blame to fit peoples own beliefs and interests, there has been little which might encourage dangerous practice in this thread. Unless of course you mean social, philisophical and political danger.
Originally posted by Frenchiequote:Totally agree
Originally posted by Ted Badger
I'm surprised at the attitude of some of these posts. If this is the mentality that's taken out onto the roads then we're lucky there aren't a damn site more fatalities.
Reply ID 58047
This 'speed doesn't kill' attitude is wrong. Of course it does. If a car hit you at 1 mph it wouldn't kill you, if it hit you at 70 mph it probably would. Much as I admire Jeremy Clarkson, I don't agree with him on this.
Reply ID 58048
quote:And you have the temerity to call me an idiot. Your car is worth more than a human life is it? That attitude stinks.
Originally posted by exiled_in_Reading
I would be considerably unpleasant if my car was written off as a result of a dozy vigilante pulling out on me because she doesn’t have enough patience to wait, or enough money to buy a house in a road that isn’t adjacent to a main thoroughfare. Still, I am a firm believer in Darwinism, so if she is true to form, her time will come in due course.
Reply ID 58053
quote:Exactly. It's terminal velocity x mass which determines the force of impact and that can be influenced by a lot more than just the speed before the start of the sequence. Basic physics, but not as emotive as "Speed Kills" for a poster campaign. I know it's a bit pedantic, but, if Clarkson made this point, he is entirely correct. None of that negates the need for some national system of speed limits.
Originally posted by aubend
This 'speed doesn't kill' attitude is wrong. Of course it does. If a car hit you at 1 mph it wouldn't kill you, if it hit you at 70 mph it probably would. Much as I admire Jeremy Clarkson, I don't agree with him on this.
Reply ID 58063
I see a local newspaper is doing a bit of plagiarism off of here so I thought I would do the head line for them, White Van Man Runs Over Mr J Walker, ho ho merry christmas.
Reply ID 58067
quote:That's not that funny though is it? [:(]
Originally posted by night owl
I see a local newspaper is doing a bit of plagiarism off of here so I thought I would do the head line for them, White Van Man Runs Over Mr J Walker, ho ho merry christmas.
Reply ID 58098
Sorry James I did not know your last name was Walker? [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by James007quote:That's not that funny though is it? [:(]
Originally posted by night owl
I see a local newspaper is doing a bit of plagiarism off of here so I thought I would do the head line for them, White Van Man Runs Over Mr J Walker, ho ho merry christmas.
Reply ID 58166
quote:Absolute tripe.....roads are not dangerous, it's the users that create the danger. Authorities spend millions on improving roads instead of improving driving standards. All the hysteria of the B1502, and it transpires that the driver has two defective tyres...... And as to speed kills, well whilst it's pretty much a generalization, I'm afraid it's pretty much true. Until road users adjust their speed to the surroundings acciudents will happen. I've been to too many incidents of a serious nature to believe otherwise.....
Originally posted by Frenchie The problem is simple - people are speeding on a dangerous piece of road.
Reply ID 58167
quote:Agreed. Speed becomes a killer when it exceeds the limits of the car, driver's talent and prevailing conditions. It is the inability of most drivers to judge such limits accurately that requires us to have speed limits. In my view part of that problem is that fairly modest cars are often capable of speeds which exceed their designed use and yet cosset the driver into believing otherwise. This is made worse by the "added value" profit to be made by features which increase survivability, rather than preventing a collision in the first place. A big spike in the middle of the steering wheel and no seatbelts or airbags, would certainly sharpen concentration.[;)] This, however, is off topic, as we have no idea of the circumstances or this particular accident, including the driver's speed.
Originally posted by Hatoquote:Absolute tripe.....roads are not dangerous, it's the users that create the danger. Authorities spend millions on improving roads instead of improving driving standards. All the hysteria of the B1502, and it transpires that the driver has two defective tyres...... And as to speed kills, well whilst it's pretty much a generalization, I'm afraid it's pretty much true. Until road users adjust their speed to the surroundings acciudents will happen. I've been to too many incidents of a serious nature to believe otherwise.....
Originally posted by Frenchie The problem is simple - people are speeding on a dangerous piece of road.
Reply ID 58169
quote:Err excuse me Hato its not tripe...People they are speeding on this stretch of road and in my view it is a dangerous piece of road, some may disagree how dangerous the road is or is not but neither point I belive are worthy of being called tripe...
Originally posted by Hatoquote:Absolute tripe.....roads are not dangerous, it's the users that create the danger. Authorities spend millions on improving roads instead of improving driving standards. All the hysteria of the B1502, and it transpires that the driver has two defective tyres...... And as to speed kills, well whilst it's pretty much a generalization, I'm afraid it's pretty much true. Until road users adjust their speed to the surroundings acciudents will happen. I've been to too many incidents of a serious nature to believe otherwise.....
Originally posted by Frenchie The problem is simple - people are speeding on a dangerous piece of road.
Reply ID 58171
quote:I'm with Hato on this one......roads in themselves cannot be dangerous. They sit there. They are static. They do not suddenly attack you. It's the way that some people use them that is dangerous, not the roads themselves.
Originally posted by Frenchiequote:Err excuse me Hato its not tripe...People they are speeding on this stretch of road and in my view it is a dangerous piece of road, some may disagree how dangerous the road is or is not but neither point I belive are worthy of being called tripe...
Originally posted by Hatoquote:Absolute tripe.....roads are not dangerous, it's the users that create the danger. Authorities spend millions on improving roads instead of improving driving standards. All the hysteria of the B1502, and it transpires that the driver has two defective tyres...... And as to speed kills, well whilst it's pretty much a generalization, I'm afraid it's pretty much true. Until road users adjust their speed to the surroundings acciudents will happen. I've been to too many incidents of a serious nature to believe otherwise.....
Originally posted by Frenchie The problem is simple - people are speeding on a dangerous piece of road.
Reply ID 58172
Yes - It is the way that some people use them that is dangerous, not the roads themselves...I totally agree but some road layouts I believe cause more people to have accidents than others because of reasons such as badly signed junctions, uneven surfaces, bad lighting or enexpected sharp turns etc. Yes its the driver of the cars that inevitably causes a crash but certain roads dont help those drivers who are less experienced, stupid or are unlucky enough to have a car malfunction on them.
Reply ID 58174
FWIW I think there is actually something wrong with this particular road. There have been several accidents on it (and some fatalities) and particulary the bend near the A10 underpass does seem to have a weird camber to it. I have heard a couple of people say that their car or another car has swerved onto the wrong side of the road there, particularly when it is wet. Whether this particular accident was due to this or not, obviously we cannot say, but I do think it is wrong to say that all accidents are down to driver error. Certain roads do seem to have strange characteristics that even experienced drivers find difficult.
Reply ID 58187
I think that there are a lot of roads that could do with improvement but the worse one I find is the roundabout on the A414 and A1M which is poorly marked lane wise, they need to make this a magic roundabout like they have at Hemel Hempsted and Canvey Island or reduce the size of it, the amount of times I have been cut up by drivers in the wrong lane, I would like to know what the accident rate is for this roundabout!
Reply ID 58190
Totally agree Night owl about that roundabout. It's a lottery which lane you end up in. An accident waiting to happen.
Reply ID 58191
quote:Agreed. That roundabout does my head in. Nearly EVERYBODY gets in the wrong lane, and then has the audacity to beep me because I'm the odd one out. When I used to commute round the M25 I used to take a longer route home be coming off at London Colney simply to avoid that roundabout and the idiots that navigate it.
Originally posted by night owl
I think that there are a lot of roads that could do with improvement but the worse one I find is the roundabout on the A414 and A1M which is poorly marked lane wise, they need to make this a magic roundabout like they have at Hemel Hempsted and Canvey Island or reduce the size of it, the amount of times I have been cut up by drivers in the wrong lane, I would like to know what the accident rate is for this roundabout!
Reply ID 58195
I'm one of the best drivers in the world (who ain't?) and even I end up in the wrong lane there!
Reply ID 58203
quote:I think the thing that would cause the most accidents is a mistake my friend from up north made when he was down here and going back up. He was concentrating so hard on what lane he needed to be in because he wasn't familiar that he went through a red light. Luckily it had just changed... Suffice to say, he was pretty shuck up by it and not very impressed that anyone allowed such a confusing roundabout to be made. That said, there is one in a town near to where I moved from that is three roundabouts over a river all running into each other, a combination of bus, taxi, one way streets, get in lane junction feeders... it's far worse than the A414/M1A junction.
Originally posted by night owl
I think that there are a lot of roads that could do with improvement but the worse one I find is the roundabout on the A414 and A1M which is poorly marked lane wise, they need to make this a magic roundabout like they have at Hemel Hempsted and Canvey Island or reduce the size of it, the amount of times I have been cut up by drivers in the wrong lane, I would like to know what the accident rate is for this roundabout!
Reply ID 58204
Hi Brockman What town was that, possibly Milton Keynes and have you ever tried the magic roundabout at Hemel the only type of roundabout you can drive around the wrong way, I use to do that just to confuse drivers who had not been there before ho ho ho :-}
Reply ID 58205
quote:I never had a problem with Hemel because it's just several roundabouts in a circle, none of which is too big and all of which are subject to normal road rules. It's where those rules are modified by excessive lining, unorthodox lane changes in the middle of the roundabout, with instructions which have to be read from the tarmac, whilst simultaneously keeping an eye on traffic lights (lights on a roundabout?!!!). No wonder people think there is such a thing as a dangerous road. All responsibility for one's own safety, or maintaining safe driving skills has been removed by excessive instructions.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Brockman What town was that, possibly Milton Keynes and have you ever tried the magic roundabout at Hemel the only type of roundabout you can drive around the wrong way, I use to do that just to confuse drivers who had not been there before ho ho ho :-}
Reply ID 58207
quote:Brave move, well done.
Originally posted by night owl
I use to do that just to confuse drivers who had not been there before ho ho ho :-}
Reply ID 58210
quote:Nah, I was referring to the roundabout over the River Mersey in Warrington. It's not quite as bad as the magic roundabout – I think it was ranked third in most difficult roundabouts to navigate after Hemel and somewhere else. To put it in perspective: Hatfield/M1A/A414 [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/auzdafluff/Hatfield.jpg[/IMG] Central Warrington [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/auzdafluff/Hatfield.jpg[/IMG] That's a massive bugger, especially when travelling south. There's a point at the roundabout where it becomes six lanes wide and it has traffic lights at the junction where it splits into three... just to make it even worse, they're all on different instructions so it's really difficult to understand who should be going and who shouldn't; never mind which lane you should be in. Plus on the left hand side of the pic, the road going road is two lanes to the left, three to the right and the one in the centre is taxi/bus only.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Brockman What town was that, possibly Milton Keynes and have you ever tried the magic roundabout at Hemel the only type of roundabout you can drive around the wrong way, I use to do that just to confuse drivers who had not been there before ho ho ho :-}
Reply ID 58211
Yep nothing like a 38 ton rig to put the fear of god into idiots who have not got a clue which side of the road to drive on and James this is 100% legal piece of driving as there is a lane going anti clock wise [8D]
quote:
Originally posted by James007quote:Brave move, well done.
Originally posted by night owl
I use to do that just to confuse drivers who had not been there before ho ho ho :-}
Reply ID 58213
Hi Brockman that roundabout you have shown from up north is a whopper and again I think that there is to much info for anyone who uses a roundabout like that and to try and take it on upstairs when travelling at 30 mph is a nightmare, the photos are very good but the one of the A414/A1M looks to be a bit old as I think some of the traffic lights are missing and the little bits of white lines that have been painted on as if some one has been playing noughts and crosses dont appear to show but it does appear to show the old markings which look better than the new markings less confusion as to which lane you need to be in.
Reply ID 58214
quote:Oh, oh![:0] All the roundabouts in Hemel run clockwise.
Originally posted by night owl
Yep nothing like a 38 ton rig to put the fear of god into idiots who have not got a clue which side of the road to drive on and James this is 100% legal piece of driving as there is a lane going anti clock wise [8D]quote:
Originally posted by James007quote:Brave move, well done.
Originally posted by night owl
I use to do that just to confuse drivers who had not been there before ho ho ho :-}
Reply ID 58215
quote:Night Owl is right... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead) "It was constructed in 1973 to reduce the congestion at the original standard layout roundabout where seven roads intersected, it was one of the first bi-directional roundabouts to be constructed in the UK." [img]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead)
Originally posted by shunt
Oh, oh![:0] All the roundabouts in Hemel run clockwise.
Reply ID 58217
quote:Very typical Wikipedia. The central circle is not a roundabout, but a set of short links between roundabouts which are arranged in a circle. Normal roundabout rules operate throughout, they just repeat very quickly, because each roundabout is adjacent to the next. If the centre is taken to be a roundabout, you appear to be going anti-clockwise, but actually you are going clockwise on a series of roundabouts and bearing right on each. The routes in and out are all via one of the roundabouts and the central part just links them. However, it doesn't look that way, when you're there.
Originally posted by Stevequote:Night Owl is right... [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead)"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead)[/url]
Originally posted by shunt
Oh, oh![:0] All the roundabouts in Hemel run clockwise.
Reply ID 58218
The Institute of Highway Engineers seem happy to reference it http://www.ihie.org.uk/news/industry-news/hemel-hempsteads-magic-roundab/ ... and the term Magic Roundabout seems to be in common usage when discussing the junction.
Reply ID 58219
Seems accurate. "The Magic Roundabout is a popular name given to a complex road junction" It is indeed the popular name given to it. Spaghetti Junction isn't made of pasta either. The roundabouts are laid out in a circle, but the circle they form is not a roundabout. It seems a bit pedantic to even mention it, but viewing the centre space as a roundabout is what causes confusion. If you can blank it out and see just the roundabouts themselves, the system is very easy to use.
Reply ID 58220
We seem to have taken a wrong exit and driven off topic here![:)]
![http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/auzdafluff/Hatfield.jpg[/IMG]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/auzdafluff/Hatfield.jpg[/IMG]){kind=link}