Topic ID 4014
Sorry if this has already been discussed but there are TWO lanes on the A414 coming into Hertford from WGC. These filter into 1 lane just prior to the roundabout before the railway bridge. When traffic is free flowing, driver's with good vision will move over to lane 1 in good time to negotiate the lane drop. However, during busy times this stretch is filled with queuing traffic. Can anyone explain why some driver's (normally lorry driver's) believe this should be a single file queue even though there are 2 lanes? It is not a courtesy thing, because if drivers filled up both lanes equally and then alternated into the single lane there would be no 'pushing in' and this is the design of the layout. If traffic was meant to queue single file then there would be 1 lane. There are 2 lanes to prevent the queue reaching the roundabout before this one and causing chaos. For those that for some reason choose to join the longer queue way back in lane 1 that's your choice. But you are wrong to straddle both lanes in an attempt to block driver's perfectly legally using lane 2. In fact, depending on your interpretation of dangerous driving, you are breaking the law. All IMHO of course. Thanks for listening. [:D]
Reply ID 58290
quote:Thing is, I live 200 yards before that roundabout and everytime I walk home, I see without fail cars in lane one tailgating cars in front by no more than two-three foot so as to stop drivers in lane two merging. It's selfish, and as you mentioned, downright dangerous.
Originally posted by Richie
Sorry if this has already been discussed but there are TWO lanes on the A414 coming into Hertford from WGC. These filter into 1 lane just prior to the roundabout before the railway bridge. When traffic is free flowing, driver's with good vision will move over to lane 1 in good time to negotiate the lane drop. However, during busy times this stretch is filled with queuing traffic. Can anyone explain why some driver's (normally lorry driver's) believe this should be a single file queue even though there are 2 lanes? It is not a courtesy thing, because if drivers filled up both lanes equally and then alternated into the single lane there would be no 'pushing in' and this is the design of the layout. If traffic was meant to queue single file then there would be 1 lane. There are 2 lanes to prevent the queue reaching the roundabout before this one and causing chaos. For those that for some reason choose to join the longer queue way back in lane 1 that's your choice. But you are wrong to straddle both lanes in an attempt to block driver's perfectly legally using lane 2. In fact, depending on your interpretation of dangerous driving, you are breaking the law. All IMHO of course. Thanks for listening. [:D]
Reply ID 58291
quote:Legal yes, courteously no. For the record I stick in the LH lane rather than straddle the white line but when it comes to the crunch at the filter in point you won't get a rizla paper between my car and the one in front [}:)]
Originally posted by Richie But you are wrong to straddle both lanes in an attempt to block driver's perfectly legally using lane 2.
Reply ID 58293
quote:Oh, coming from the man who cuts up by the fire station and pushes in the traffic going up towards the A10. tut tut. touch of hypocrisy. On this topic, it is you Leo whom is discourteous to drive so close to the car in front! Because you cannot grasp the concept of two lane queuing.
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:Legal yes, courteously no. For the record I stick in the LH lane rather than straddle the white line but when it comes to the crunch at the filter in point you won't get a rizla paper between my car and the one in front [}:)]
Originally posted by Richie But you are wrong to straddle both lanes in an attempt to block driver's perfectly legally using lane 2.
Reply ID 58294
quote:Not so - when I cut up past the fire station I only pull out into London Rd when there is a safe gap to do so - normally when the lights are changing on the roundabout,and therefore not demanding that someone has to give way to me or brake hard to avoid me. It sometimes works out that the quicker option would be via the roundabout - such is life. I grasp the concept of two lane queing perfectly well - its the concept of driving like a nob at 60 in a 40 limit and then trying to crowbar your way into the LH lane just before the roundabout that I fail to comprehend. That is, afterall, the manoeuvre you seem keen to defend is it not?
Originally posted by Richie Oh, coming from the man who cuts up by the fire station and pushes in the traffic going up towards the A10. tut tut. touch of hypocrisy. On this topic, it is you Leo whom is discourteous to drive so close to the car in front! Because you cannot grasp the concept of two lane queuing.
Reply ID 58298
Spot on Richie!!! Another pet irritation of mine, why not use both lanes?? That's what they're thre for...fed up with f**kwits who feel that they have a divine right to determine the rules for everyone else because "they know best"
quote:
Originally posted by Richie
Sorry if this has already been discussed but there are TWO lanes on the A414 coming into Hertford from WGC. These filter into 1 lane just prior to the roundabout before the railway bridge. When traffic is free flowing, driver's with good vision will move over to lane 1 in good time to negotiate the lane drop. However, during busy times this stretch is filled with queuing traffic. Can anyone explain why some driver's (normally lorry driver's) believe this should be a single file queue even though there are 2 lanes? It is not a courtesy thing, because if drivers filled up both lanes equally and then alternated into the single lane there would be no 'pushing in' and this is the design of the layout. If traffic was meant to queue single file then there would be 1 lane. There are 2 lanes to prevent the queue reaching the roundabout before this one and causing chaos. For those that for some reason choose to join the longer queue way back in lane 1 that's your choice. But you are wrong to straddle both lanes in an attempt to block driver's perfectly legally using lane 2. In fact, depending on your interpretation of dangerous driving, you are breaking the law. All IMHO of course. Thanks for listening. [:D]
Reply ID 58299
It wouldn't be so bad if drivers using the outside lane drove in a considerate manner.For example,if they kept to the speed limit, and then, when reaching the cross-hatchings waited to be allowed to filter in. That, however, is seldom the case. It's a case of "I'm going to get past you at any cost, and then force my way in front of you". That's what offends people. As for people straddling the two lanes being guilty of dangerous driving, that's just twaddle.
Reply ID 58300
quote:Question: Is the "driver in free flowing traffic that moves over in time to negotiate the lane drop" the same driver that accelerates down the outside of an obvious queue in order to gain some perceived advantage before attempting to cut into orderly queuing traffic? It wouldn't be unreasonable to deduce from your post that you are one of these people that overtakes a queue of cars, knowing full well that the lane you are in is about to be filtered down into one lane. This could be the courtesy 'thing' that you refer to. Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's my understanding that there is only ONE driving lane on any road - whether it's a dual carriageway or motorway - the other lanes are provided purely as overtaking lanes. So you might be mis-interpreting the fact that the second lane exists in order for you to overtake all the other idiots that choose to queue. [:)]
Originally posted by Richie
Sorry if this has already been discussed but there are TWO lanes on the A414 coming into Hertford from WGC. These filter into 1 lane just prior to the roundabout before the railway bridge. When traffic is free flowing, driver's with good vision will move over to lane 1 in good time to negotiate the lane drop. However, during busy times this stretch is filled with queuing traffic. Can anyone explain why some driver's (normally lorry driver's) believe this should be a single file queue even though there are 2 lanes? It is not a courtesy thing, because if drivers filled up both lanes equally and then alternated into the single lane there would be no 'pushing in' and this is the design of the layout. If traffic was meant to queue single file then there would be 1 lane. There are 2 lanes to prevent the queue reaching the roundabout before this one and causing chaos. For those that for some reason choose to join the longer queue way back in lane 1 that's your choice. But you are wrong to straddle both lanes in an attempt to block driver's perfectly legally using lane 2. In fact, depending on your interpretation of dangerous driving, you are breaking the law. All IMHO of course. Thanks for listening. [:D]
Reply ID 58302
quote:No, I believe the highway code actively encourages the use of these lanes to help the flow of traffic. I remember being told by my driving instructor that if everyone who presently used the second lane queued in lane one and no one used the second, then traffic would be far, far worse.
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:Question: Is the "driver in free flowing traffic that moves over in time to negotiate the lane drop" the same driver that accelerates down the outside of an obvious queue in order to gain some perceived advantage before attempting to cut into orderly queuing traffic? It wouldn't be unreasonable to deduce from your post that you are one of these people that overtakes a queue of cars, knowing full well that the lane you are in is about to be filtered down into one lane. This could be the courtesy 'thing' that you refer to. Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's my understanding that there is only ONE driving lane on any road - whether it's a dual carriageway or motorway - the other lanes are provided purely as overtaking lanes. So you might be mis-interpreting the fact that the second lane exists in order for you to overtake all the other idiots that choose to queue. [:)]
Originally posted by Richie
Sorry if this has already been discussed but there are TWO lanes on the A414 coming into Hertford from WGC. These filter into 1 lane just prior to the roundabout before the railway bridge. When traffic is free flowing, driver's with good vision will move over to lane 1 in good time to negotiate the lane drop. However, during busy times this stretch is filled with queuing traffic. Can anyone explain why some driver's (normally lorry driver's) believe this should be a single file queue even though there are 2 lanes? It is not a courtesy thing, because if drivers filled up both lanes equally and then alternated into the single lane there would be no 'pushing in' and this is the design of the layout. If traffic was meant to queue single file then there would be 1 lane. There are 2 lanes to prevent the queue reaching the roundabout before this one and causing chaos. For those that for some reason choose to join the longer queue way back in lane 1 that's your choice. But you are wrong to straddle both lanes in an attempt to block driver's perfectly legally using lane 2. In fact, depending on your interpretation of dangerous driving, you are breaking the law. All IMHO of course. Thanks for listening. [:D]
Reply ID 58305
This reminds me of people queing for the escalators in London on my hectic commute. Big q's for the very long escalator but still people brazenly walk straight to the front and push in.. I dont see any difference, just because you can doesnt mean you should....a little bit of curteous discretion needs to be applied sometimes and that applies to many aspects of life !
Reply ID 58307
The correct procedure is to use both lanes and filter one to one. To deliberately block either lane, or filtering traffic is obstruction. Highways have started to erect signs to this effect in various places, since nobody seems capable of acting without instruction these days. The use of Old London Road (mentioned incidentally) is both legal and reasonable.
Reply ID 58308
In the channel islands road signs order traffic to filter in turn. It works.
Reply ID 58312
quote:Erm, you appear to have either misread my post or chose to completely fabricate and manipulate it in an attempt to strengthen your own opinion. At no point do I advocate or even mention speeding????? At no point do I mention using a crowbar to filter to lane 1. The manoeuvre you describe would not be an option if traffic queued equally in both lanes. The point is quite simple Leo. Two lanes of equally queuing traffic which then alternately filters to one lane.
Originally posted by Leo Densian
I grasp the concept of two lane queing perfectly well - its the concept of driving like a nob at 60 in a 40 limit and then trying to crowbar your way into the LH lane just before the roundabout that I fail to comprehend. That is, afterall, the manoeuvre you seem keen to defend is it not?
Reply ID 58313
Assuming there is no tail-back that is causing a dangerous issue then it is my belief that that the alternating of each lane as 2 become 1 just slows the whole process down as some drivers are unaware of the procedure/nervous drivers etc and the stop and starting involved means that the single Q in lane 1 is much faster in keeping the traffic moving.
Reply ID 58314
quote:Doh - Now I just had to go and look it up: [url]http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070308[/url] On a two-lane dual carriageway you should stay in the left-hand lane. Use the right-hand lane for overtaking or turning right. After overtaking, move back to the left-hand lane when it is safe to do so.
Originally posted by Brockman No, I believe the highway code actively encourages the use of these lanes to help the flow of traffic. I remember being told by my driving instructor that if everyone who presently used the second lane queued in lane one and no one used the second, then traffic would be far, far worse.
Reply ID 58315
quote:[:D] On the link you refer to you will also find this... Lane Discipline 134 In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:Doh - Now I just had to go and look it up: [url]http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070308[/url] On a two-lane dual carriageway you should stay in the left-hand lane. Use the right-hand lane for overtaking or turning right. After overtaking, move back to the left-hand lane when it is safe to do so.
Originally posted by Brockman No, I believe the highway code actively encourages the use of these lanes to help the flow of traffic. I remember being told by my driving instructor that if everyone who presently used the second lane queued in lane one and no one used the second, then traffic would be far, far worse.
Reply ID 58317
I wonder what options are left if merging in turn is only recommended? [:)]
Reply ID 58318
I believe the above Highway Code quotes are more in relation to filtering when it forced upon you, maybe because of an unexpected event such as roadworks or an accident on a dual carriagway or motorway. The gripe here is that when locals or people with knowledge of the road quite happily fly passed in lane 2 even when there is relatively short Q's of say 15 cars in lane 1 I think.
Reply ID 58319
It's not so much what is done, but how it is done. Deliberate obstruction, either of the RH lane, or a vehicle trying to merge from it could be viewed as an offense. Which lane you choose (when in a slow moving queue) cannot. If the lane is used for overtaking at normal road speeds, the responsibility to do so safely and merge again lies with the overtaking driver.
Reply ID 58320
quote:Fair enough - why wait till you are nearly at the roundabout though? Why not filter in good time before the Valeside junction? Are you annoyed by or do you also advocate driving right up the cones on motorway roadworks before you try to filter in? Seems the same principle to me.
Originally posted by Richie The point is quite simple Leo. Two lanes of equally queuing traffic which then alternately filters to one lane.
Reply ID 58327
I can't quite get my head around this, but as only one vehicle at a time can go on to the roundabout, does it matter if there are two queues instead of one? It surely won't make it flow any quicker. Or does it tail all the way back to the previous roundabout and slow people coming off there?
Reply ID 58329
quote:I think the issue is the amount of aggravation at the pont where the two queues merge. Those that have been queing feel that the cars in the right-hand lane are ignoring the queue and are pushing in. Those in the right hand lane feel that it is an acceptable manouvere and can't understand why the queing cars don't give way to them when they want to pull in. It results in a kind-of bumper-to-bumper shuffle where the queueing cars try to stop the overtaking lane cars from pulling in, and the overtaking lane cars see how close they can come to an accident whilst trying to prise their way in to the queue. Variations on the theme are: People queueing loose patience and pull out to overtake in order to make a bit more distance up the queue before pulling in again. Lorries start a go-slow in the overtaking lane in order to deny the overtakers a chance to get further up the queue than they are. The real queue-jumpers at heart are revealed once through the bridge, as they tend to then undertake the queue in the right-hand lane by using the 'left-hand turn only' lane, but then scoot straight across at the roundabout. [:)]
Originally posted by dennismoore
I can't quite get my head around this, but as only one vehicle at a time can go on to the roundabout, does it matter if there are two queues instead of one? It surely won't make it flow any quicker. Or does it tail all the way back to the previous roundabout and slow people coming off there?
Reply ID 58334
quote:All symptoms of the road Infrastructure being unable to cope with the volume of traffic, and the need for a Hertford by-pass.
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:I think the issue is the amount of aggravation at the pont where the two queues merge. Those that have been queing feel that the cars in the right-hand lane are ignoring the queue and are pushing in. Those in the right hand lane feel that it is an acceptable manouvere and can't understand why the queing cars don't give way to them when they want to pull in. It results in a kind-of bumper-to-bumper shuffle where the queueing cars try to stop the overtaking lane cars from pulling in, and the overtaking lane cars see how close they can come to an accident whilst trying to prise their way in to the queue. Variations on the theme are: People queueing loose patience and pull out to overtake in order to make a bit more distance up the queue before pulling in again. Lorries start a go-slow in the overtaking lane in order to deny the overtakers a chance to get further up the queue than they are. The real queue-jumpers at heart are revealed once through the bridge, as they tend to then undertake the queue in the right-hand lane by using the 'left-hand turn only' lane, but then scoot straight across at the roundabout. [:)]
Originally posted by dennismoore
I can't quite get my head around this, but as only one vehicle at a time can go on to the roundabout, does it matter if there are two queues instead of one? It surely won't make it flow any quicker. Or does it tail all the way back to the previous roundabout and slow people coming off there?
Reply ID 58336
quote:.......or the need for less traffic.[;)]
Originally posted by spitfirequote:All symptoms of the road Infrastructure being unable to cope with the volume of traffic, and the need for a Hertford by-pass.
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:I think the issue is the amount of aggravation at the pont where the two queues merge. Those that have been queing feel that the cars in the right-hand lane are ignoring the queue and are pushing in. Those in the right hand lane feel that it is an acceptable manouvere and can't understand why the queing cars don't give way to them when they want to pull in. It results in a kind-of bumper-to-bumper shuffle where the queueing cars try to stop the overtaking lane cars from pulling in, and the overtaking lane cars see how close they can come to an accident whilst trying to prise their way in to the queue. Variations on the theme are: People queueing loose patience and pull out to overtake in order to make a bit more distance up the queue before pulling in again. Lorries start a go-slow in the overtaking lane in order to deny the overtakers a chance to get further up the queue than they are. The real queue-jumpers at heart are revealed once through the bridge, as they tend to then undertake the queue in the right-hand lane by using the 'left-hand turn only' lane, but then scoot straight across at the roundabout. [:)]
Originally posted by dennismoore
I can't quite get my head around this, but as only one vehicle at a time can go on to the roundabout, does it matter if there are two queues instead of one? It surely won't make it flow any quicker. Or does it tail all the way back to the previous roundabout and slow people coming off there?
Reply ID 58341
quote:Wrong; A need for an adequate road structure - Not necessarily a by-pass.
All symptoms of the road Infrastructure being unable to cope with the volume of traffic, and the need for a Hertford by-pass.
Reply ID 58343
Hey, we've already carved Hertford in half. Enough is enough.
Reply ID 58344
quote:It is a well known fact that everytime the M25 slows up around Junction 25 and back towards South Mimms, a large number of drivers use the A1(M) then A414 as an alternative route, Everytime the traffic is queuing back out of Hertford I can guarantee that is the reason. Most of these drivers have no need or interest in going through Hertford. It probably puts most off wanting to Visit the town!. I have been using the A414 on a daily basis for the last 19 years to get to and from work, and has been getting worse for years.
Originally posted by codek2quote:Wrong; A need for an adequate road structure - Not necessarily a by-pass.
All symptoms of the road Infrastructure being unable to cope with the volume of traffic, and the need for a Hertford by-pass.
Reply ID 58345
quote:A lot longer than that. I came to Hertford because my father liked what he saw whilst waiting in traffic in 1966.
Originally posted by spitfirequote:It is a well known fact that everytime the M25 slows up around Junction 25 and back towards South Mimms, a large number of drivers use the A1(M) then A414 as an alternative route, Everytime the traffic is queuing back out of Hertford I can guarantee that is the reason. Most of these drivers have no need or interest in going through Hertford. It probably puts most off wanting to Visit the town!. I have been using the A414 on a daily basis for the last 19 years to get to and from work, and has been getting worse for years.
Originally posted by codek2quote:Wrong; A need for an adequate road structure - Not necessarily a by-pass.
All symptoms of the road Infrastructure being unable to cope with the volume of traffic, and the need for a Hertford by-pass.
Reply ID 58368
Richie is absolutely right - why queue in the left had lane then get all up tight about people using the right hand lane which is empty and free flowing. Using both lanes means that the queue is half as long and this can make a big difference when it comes to not obstructing junctions etc.
Reply ID 58369
quote:No - the queue is the same length because it still has to filter into one lane of road. However, the two carriageways may be moving at different speeds towards the same obstruction, which brings us back to the issue of perceived queue jumping.
Originally posted by jez_p Using both lanes means that the queue is half as long and this can make a big difference when it comes to not obstructing junctions etc.
Reply ID 58371
quote:Hang on. 60 cars in single file is a queue 60 cars long, where as 60 cars in two queues is 30 cars long. That's the point of two lanes. It stops the queue blocking the Hertingfordbury roundabout and trailing back dangerously into the national speed limit section. If operated responsibly, the time waited would be the same. It goes wrong for one reason only;- the selfish, obstructive behaviour of some of those who block the one to one process, or the right lane itself.
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:No - the queue is the same length because it still has to filter into one lane of road. However, the two carriageways may be moving at different speeds towards the same obstruction, which brings us back to the issue of perceived queue jumping.
Originally posted by jez_p Using both lanes means that the queue is half as long and this can make a big difference when it comes to not obstructing junctions etc.
Reply ID 58372
quote:Not then the selfish aggressive behaviour of those who think they have the God given right to force their way in front of people who are patiently queueing?
Originally posted by shuntquote:Hang on. 60 cars in single file is a queue 60 cars long, where as 60 cars in two queues is 30 cars long. That's the point of two lanes. It stops the queue blocking the Hertingfordbury roundabout and trailing back dangerously into the nation speed limit section. If operated responsibly, the time waited would be the same. It goes wrong for one reason only;- the selfish, obstructive behaviour of some of those who block the one to one process, or the right lane itself.
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:No - the queue is the same length because it still has to filter into one lane of road. However, the two carriageways may be moving at different speeds towards the same obstruction, which brings us back to the issue of perceived queue jumping.
Originally posted by jez_p Using both lanes means that the queue is half as long and this can make a big difference when it comes to not obstructing junctions etc.
Reply ID 58373
quote:Beg your pardon - I was talking about time, not length (oo-er..) But I still imagine that drivers coming down the RH lane are intending to shorten their journey, rather than easing potential congestion at the back of the queue. [:)]
Originally posted by shunt Hang on. 60 cars in single file is a queue 60 cars long, where as 60 cars in two queues is 30 cars long.
Reply ID 58375
Oh my god! Shunt and Jez P explain it so simply and absolutely right! What is so difficult to grasp???? There would be no queue jumping if everybody queued equally in both lanes! I tell you what. Ted, Leo and buzz,you can queue all you like in single file and potentially block up the Hertifngfordbury roundabout..... We'll be at home with a brew in hand by the time you've reached the moral highground and high five'd each other with you're misguided 'courteous' conga!.... Suckers! [:D]
Reply ID 58376
But Ted, if people used both lanes then people wouldn't be able to "Queue Jump" so problem solved. The only snag is that this would require a major re-education of the staunched queue on the left brigade - who may also be the same people that get into the correct lane as early as possible - not just in plenty of time but actually miles before the junction. GRRR.
Reply ID 58377
quote:They are not "forcing", but acting correctly. It's blocking them from merging which the error. If the traffic is moving at speed and someone cuts in, forcing you to brake, that's different.
Originally posted by buzzquote:Not then the selfish aggressive behaviour of those who think they have the God given right to force their way in front of people who are patiently queueing?
Originally posted by shuntquote:Hang on. 60 cars in single file is a queue 60 cars long, where as 60 cars in two queues is 30 cars long. That's the point of two lanes. It stops the queue blocking the Hertingfordbury roundabout and trailing back dangerously into the nation speed limit section. If operated responsibly, the time waited would be the same. It goes wrong for one reason only;- the selfish, obstructive behaviour of some of those who block the one to one process, or the right lane itself.
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:No - the queue is the same length because it still has to filter into one lane of road. However, the two carriageways may be moving at different speeds towards the same obstruction, which brings us back to the issue of perceived queue jumping.
Originally posted by jez_p Using both lanes means that the queue is half as long and this can make a big difference when it comes to not obstructing junctions etc.
Reply ID 58379
Ho ho ho he he he I must put my socks back on, I have not had such a good laugh for long time ha ha ha I am cracking up LOL ho ho ho, sorry I will come back when I have stopped laughing next week.
Reply ID 58383
Sorry about laughing on here but no way is my laughing intended as offence to anyone as there are some very seasoned drivers on here giving out the correct answers.
Reply ID 58387
quote:Not if you try to 'filter' in front of me five yards before the roundabout you won't [;)] But I'll tell YOU what - the whole thing is so much of a pain I can't be arsed 9 times out of 10 and go through Hertingfordbury instead [^] Cue rat run debate...
Originally posted by Richie I tell you what. Ted, Leo and buzz,you can queue all you like in single file and potentially block up the Hertifngfordbury roundabout..... We'll be at home with a brew in hand by the time you've reached the moral highground and high five'd each other with you're misguided 'courteous' conga!.... Suckers! [:D]
Reply ID 58389
quote:|If an unmarked cop is coming down the right hand and you do that to them, you'll lose your license. That's extremely dangerous and the whole reason why there are queues at that roundabout.
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:Not if you try to 'filter' in front of me five yards before the roundabout you won't [;)] But I'll tell YOU what - the whole thing is so much of a pain I can't be arsed 9 times out of 10 and go through Hertingfordbury instead [^] Cue rat run debate...
Originally posted by Richie I tell you what. Ted, Leo and buzz,you can queue all you like in single file and potentially block up the Hertifngfordbury roundabout..... We'll be at home with a brew in hand by the time you've reached the moral highground and high five'd each other with you're misguided 'courteous' conga!.... Suckers! [:D]
Reply ID 58390
quote:'They are not "forcing"'? Shunt, you obviously live in some parallel universe unconnected with planet Earth. The stretch of road that I drive on sees drivers continually speeding down the outside lane, leaving it until the last minute as they approach the marked hatchings and then FORCING, YES FORCING their way in. I am so fed up with such belligerent, anti-social behaviour, that I normally divert up towards Sele Farm, down to North Station and along North Road to avoid such arrogant conduct.
Originally posted by shuntquote:They are not "forcing", but acting correctly. It's blocking them from merging which the error. If the traffic is moving at speed and someone cuts in, forcing you to brake, that's different.
Originally posted by buzzquote:Not then the selfish aggressive behaviour of those who think they have the God given right to force their way in front of people who are patiently queueing?
Originally posted by shuntquote:Hang on. 60 cars in single file is a queue 60 cars long, where as 60 cars in two queues is 30 cars long. That's the point of two lanes. It stops the queue blocking the Hertingfordbury roundabout and trailing back dangerously into the nation speed limit section. If operated responsibly, the time waited would be the same. It goes wrong for one reason only;- the selfish, obstructive behaviour of some of those who block the one to one process, or the right lane itself.
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:No - the queue is the same length because it still has to filter into one lane of road. However, the two carriageways may be moving at different speeds towards the same obstruction, which brings us back to the issue of perceived queue jumping.
Originally posted by jez_p Using both lanes means that the queue is half as long and this can make a big difference when it comes to not obstructing junctions etc.
Reply ID 58392
quote:What part of 'you are meant to use both lanes' don't you understand? They're not speeding... it might just seem that way because you're stuck in the left hand lane. You're obviously one of those idiots who when in a supermarket, go to a checkout with a queue; even if there are two or three that have no one queuing.
Originally posted by buzzquote:'They are not "forcing"'? Shunt, you obviously live in some parallel universe unconnected with planet Earth. The stretch of road that I drive on sees drivers continually speeding down the outside lane, leaving it until the last minute as they approach the marked hatchings and then FORCING, YES FORCING their way in. I am so fed up with such belligerent, anti-social behaviour, that I normally divert up towards Sele Farm, down to North Station and along North Road to avoid such arrogant conduct.
Originally posted by shuntquote:They are not "forcing", but acting correctly. It's blocking them from merging which the error. If the traffic is moving at speed and someone cuts in, forcing you to brake, that's different.
Originally posted by buzzquote:Not then the selfish aggressive behaviour of those who think they have the God given right to force their way in front of people who are patiently queueing?
Originally posted by shuntquote:Hang on. 60 cars in single file is a queue 60 cars long, where as 60 cars in two queues is 30 cars long. That's the point of two lanes. It stops the queue blocking the Hertingfordbury roundabout and trailing back dangerously into the nation speed limit section. If operated responsibly, the time waited would be the same. It goes wrong for one reason only;- the selfish, obstructive behaviour of some of those who block the one to one process, or the right lane itself.
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:No - the queue is the same length because it still has to filter into one lane of road. However, the two carriageways may be moving at different speeds towards the same obstruction, which brings us back to the issue of perceived queue jumping.
Originally posted by jez_p Using both lanes means that the queue is half as long and this can make a big difference when it comes to not obstructing junctions etc.
Reply ID 58394
quote:Wow! I can only preume that you are trolling for reaction? Your original post seems to be losing a little of it's innocence if you see courteous road use as a hinderance to getting home or down the pub faster than anyone in front of you? Ironically, I don't own or car or drive - I'm interested enough in the debate because I witness this whole fiasco daily whilst cycling to work. I understand the basis of your two-lane argument; what you ought to realise though is that there are still an awful lot of drivers who take an aggresive attitude in seeing it as a short cut to avoid queing. @Brockman I was trying to thing of a supermarket analogy, but it would have to be 'if there are two queues in a supermarket, but only one person at a till which queue would you wait in...' but I didn't think it was that good - not least of all because I imagine in that situation people would politely alternate for service. Anyhow- given the frustrations, tensions and stresses that seem to be escallating from behind the comfort even of your own computer screen, I'll leave the real world road politics for you guys to sort out. Don't forget to wait 'till you get home before you have that beer! ;-) [:)]
Originally posted by Richie
Oh my god! Shunt and Jez P explain it so simply and absolutely right! What is so difficult to grasp???? ...you can queue all you like ... We'll be at home with a brew in hand by the time you've reached the moral highground and high five'd each other with you're misguided 'courteous' conga!.... Suckers! [:D]
Reply ID 58395
quote:Er, yeah sorry. Found a new wine I became partial too that night. [:I]
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:Wow! I can only preume that you are trolling for reaction? Your original post seems to be losing a little of it's innocence if you see courteous road use as a hinderance to getting home or down the pub faster than anyone in front of you? Ironically, I don't own or car or drive - I'm interested enough in the debate because I witness this whole fiasco daily whilst cycling to work. I understand the basis of your two-lane argument; what you ought to realise though is that there are still an awful lot of drivers who take an aggresive attitude in seeing it as a short cut to avoid queing.
Originally posted by Richie
Oh my god! Shunt and Jez P explain it so simply and absolutely right! What is so difficult to grasp???? ...you can queue all you like ... We'll be at home with a brew in hand by the time you've reached the moral highground and high five'd each other with you're misguided 'courteous' conga!.... Suckers! [:D]
Reply ID 58396
quote:Yes, but to alternate for service, there has to be more than one queue. If two tills were open and everybody insisted on waiting in only one queue, surely it's unreasonable to condemn someone for using the other till. Indeed, wouldn't you think those queueing like dozing sheep a little daft, or at least, not really paying attention? I actually rather approve of the old fashioned British tendancy to queue and traditional courtesy, but to all wait in one line at this point, defeats the safety object of having created two lanes.
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:Wow! I can only preume that you are trolling for reaction? Your original post seems to be losing a little of it's innocence if you see courteous road use as a hinderance to getting home or down the pub faster than anyone in front of you? Ironically, I don't own or car or drive - I'm interested enough in the debate because I witness this whole fiasco daily whilst cycling to work. I understand the basis of your two-lane argument; what you ought to realise though is that there are still an awful lot of drivers who take an aggresive attitude in seeing it as a short cut to avoid queing. @Brockman I was trying to thing of a supermarket analogy, but it would have to be 'if there are two queues in a supermarket, but only one person at a till which queue would you wait in...' but I didn't think it was that good - not least of all because I imagine in that situation people would politely alternate for service. Anyhow- given the frustrations, tensions and stresses that seem to be escallating from behind the comfort even of your own computer screen, I'll leave the real world road politics for you guys to sort out. Don't forget to wait 'till you get home before you have that beer! ;-) [:)]
Originally posted by Richie
Oh my god! Shunt and Jez P explain it so simply and absolutely right! What is so difficult to grasp???? ...you can queue all you like ... We'll be at home with a brew in hand by the time you've reached the moral highground and high five'd each other with you're misguided 'courteous' conga!.... Suckers! [:D]
Reply ID 58400
quote:The use of the word "idiot", because you have a different view to me, seems to confirm your arrogant attitude. As for the first part of your comment, 'What part of 'you are meant to use both lanes' don't you understand? I'll tell you. I don't understand the attitude of the drivers who [i]speed[i/] in the RH lane, (sometimes when there is no queue) right up to the hatchings before moving to the left hand lane. The purpose of the two lanes as you leave the Thieves Lane roundabout heading towards Hertford, is to allow vehicles to overtake slower moving vehicles, such as lorries or buses, before reaching the 40mph limit. This extends after the limit for a short distance to allow vehicles time to return to the left hand lane. As for the second part of your comment 'They're not speeding... it might just seem that way because you're stuck in the left hand lane. Let me just explain something: in Courts of Law, some people are regarded as experts, either because of the job they do, or because of their experience in a particular field. Police officers are regarded as experts in two areas. Drunkeness and vehicle speeds.An expert witness is allowed by the Courts to give 'Opinion Evidence' I was a Police officer for 30 years, holding the Police Advanced Driving Certificate for 27 of them. So I think I am qualified to judge when a vehicle is exceeding a speed limit. In my OPINION most of the queue jumping vehicles are exceeding the 40mph speed limit in that section of the road to which it applies. Also, by their conduct, some of the queue jumpers might like to consider S.3. RTA 1988 "Driving without reasonable consideration for other road users"
Originally posted by Brockmanquote:What part of 'you are meant to use both lanes' don't you understand? They're not speeding... it might just seem that way because you're stuck in the left hand lane. You're obviously one of those idiots who when in a supermarket, go to a checkout with a queue; even if there are two or three that have no one queuing.
Originally posted by buzzquote:'They are not "forcing"'? Shunt, you obviously live in some parallel universe unconnected with planet Earth. The stretch of road that I drive on sees drivers continually speeding down the outside lane, leaving it until the last minute as they approach the marked hatchings and then FORCING, YES FORCING their way in. I am so fed up with such belligerent, anti-social behaviour, that I normally divert up towards Sele Farm, down to North Station and along North Road to avoid such arrogant conduct.
Originally posted by shuntquote:They are not "forcing", but acting correctly. It's blocking them from merging which the error. If the traffic is moving at speed and someone cuts in, forcing you to brake, that's different.
Originally posted by buzzquote:Not then the selfish aggressive behaviour of those who think they have the God given right to force their way in front of people who are patiently queueing?
Originally posted by shuntquote:Hang on. 60 cars in single file is a queue 60 cars long, where as 60 cars in two queues is 30 cars long. That's the point of two lanes. It stops the queue blocking the Hertingfordbury roundabout and trailing back dangerously into the nation speed limit section. If operated responsibly, the time waited would be the same. It goes wrong for one reason only;- the selfish, obstructive behaviour of some of those who block the one to one process, or the right lane itself.
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:No - the queue is the same length because it still has to filter into one lane of road. However, the two carriageways may be moving at different speeds towards the same obstruction, which brings us back to the issue of perceived queue jumping.
Originally posted by jez_p Using both lanes means that the queue is half as long and this can make a big difference when it comes to not obstructing junctions etc.
Reply ID 58401
buzz - You are right in every aspect of your statement, in my opinion. However, as you are a pedant, you should examine your grammar and be brought to task, otherwise you'll get fined for this piece of work in a few years. (S.12.3 of the Sentence and Paragraph Separation Act, 2018).
Reply ID 58403
Hey, it's Christmas everyone, stop stressing about two lanes. We all know that drivers who try to push in at that junction are ************ ******. Life is a bit too short to be worrying about it.
Reply ID 58411
quote:Actually, James, it's S.12.3c[:D]
Originally posted by James007
buzz - You are right in every aspect of your statement, in my opinion. However, as you are a pedant, you should examine your grammar and be brought to task, otherwise you'll get fined for this piece of work in a few years. (S.12.3 of the Sentence and Paragraph Separation Act, 2018).
Reply ID 58412
He he he he ho ho ho sorry just fell off my perch again and I am rolling about on the floor ha ha ha, oops sorry no offence he he, i will be back later for the next laugh.
Reply ID 58421
quote:... and night owl needs to refer to section 12.3 e and d of the legislation which refers to hairy people who smell Autunm Mist whilst being photographed on the lavvy in a supermarket bog. [:)]
Originally posted by buzzquote:Actually, James, it's S.12.3c[:D]
Originally posted by James007
buzz - You are right in every aspect of your statement, in my opinion. However, as you are a pedant, you should examine your grammar and be brought to task, otherwise you'll get fined for this piece of work in a few years. (S.12.3 of the Sentence and Paragraph Separation Act, 2018).
Reply ID 58425
James you kinky devil taking rude snaps what ever next and dont you know owls have feathers and I like flying around in the autum mist but its no fun falling 60 foot off my pearch as now I have two lumps on my head and a bent beak but I am still laughing ho ho ho he he he.
Reply ID 58426
quote:Which lane would that be ;-)
Originally posted by night owl I think that there are a lot of roads that could do with improvement. The amount of times I have been cut up by drivers in the wrong lane...
Reply ID 58429
quote:Buzz, if I were to drive at no more than 40mph, less when conditions dictate, along lane 2 until I approached the rear of queuing traffic in my lane and then filtered to lane 1 on an alternating basis as traffic crept towards the lane drop, exactly what ticket would you give me?????? Would you have anything to say to the lorry driver that straddles both lanes blocking the path of traffic in lane 2???? I do however, agree with you that Police Officers are indeed experts in drunkenness. [:D]
Originally posted by buzz The use of the word "idiot", because you have a different view to me, seems to confirm your arrogant attitude. As for the first part of your comment, 'What part of 'you are meant to use both lanes' don't you understand? I'll tell you. I don't understand the attitude of the drivers who [i]speed[i/] in the RH lane, (sometimes when there is no queue) right up to the hatchings before moving to the left hand lane. The purpose of the two lanes as you leave the Thieves Lane roundabout heading towards Hertford, is to allow vehicles to overtake slower moving vehicles, such as lorries or buses, before reaching the 40mph limit. This extends after the limit for a short distance to allow vehicles time to return to the left hand lane. As for the second part of your comment 'They're not speeding... it might just seem that way because you're stuck in the left hand lane. Let me just explain something: in Courts of Law, some people are regarded as experts, either because of the job they do, or because of their experience in a particular field. Police officers are regarded as experts in two areas. Drunkeness and vehicle speeds.An expert witness is allowed by the Courts to give 'Opinion Evidence' I was a Police officer for 30 years, holding the Police Advanced Driving Certificate for 27 of them. So I think I am qualified to judge when a vehicle is exceeding a speed limit. In my OPINION most of the queue jumping vehicles are exceeding the 40mph speed limit in that section of the road to which it applies. Also, by their conduct, some of the queue jumpers might like to consider S.3. RTA 1988 "Driving without reasonable consideration for other road users"
Reply ID 58433
That would be the lane for the A414 at the A1m/A414 roundabout which I use.[:D]
quote:
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:Which lane would that be ;-)
Originally posted by night owl I think that there are a lot of roads that could do with improvement. The amount of times I have been cut up by drivers in the wrong lane...
Reply ID 58434
quote:Dang! And there was me trying to shake you off your perch into an opinion! [:D]
Originally posted by night owl
That would be the lane for the A414 at the A1m/A414 roundabout which I use.[:D]quote:
Originally posted by Ted Badgerquote:Which lane would that be ;-)
Originally posted by night owl I think that there are a lot of roads that could do with improvement. The amount of times I have been cut up by drivers in the wrong lane...
Reply ID 58435
And for the people who would like to know why lorry drivers straddle both lanes at road works ect. The problem is that when you have queue jumpers they not only cut in at the very front of the queue but some of them cut in at other points in the queue and the result of their actions after passing a number of signs telling them the lane ahead is blocked, this means that all the other people in the left lane have to wait about double the time that it should have taken them to clear these roadworks and when you sit in a lorry you get a nice view of whats going on and if queue jumpers think that we are going to sit there all day while they are pushing in then you are going to find a lorry in your way and this helps clear the jam, I bet they would not push into a queue at the check out in a supermarket, I hope you understand what I have said, also I think that every one has failed to spot the problem at the roundabout by the railway bridge apart from the bad driving of some people speeding but the railway bridge was most probably built in the days of the horse and cart and to have said bridge widened would not only cost so many millions it would cause problems on the trains as well but unless this is done then this problem will not go away and the approach to said roundabout needs to be looked at as this has not been changed in many years.
Reply ID 58437
So how far back should you filter in to one lane? Queue in Both Lanes, Merge in Turn and then people can't jump the queue! Next time you are in Tesco don't chose the shortest queue, just stand in the longest one because otherwise you might get served before somebody that has been queueing longer than you have. Better still park your trolley across 2 queues so that you can make sure nobody gets served quicker than you.
Reply ID 58438
quote:Please read S.12.3 of the Sentence and Paragraph Separation Act, 2018
Originally posted by night owl
And for the people who would like to know why lorry drivers straddle both lanes at road works ect. The problem is that when you have queue jumpers they not only cut in at the very front of the queue but some of them cut in at other points in the queue and the result of their actions after passing a number of signs telling them the lane ahead is blocked, this means that all the other people in the left lane have to wait about double the time that it should have taken them to clear these roadworks and when you sit in a lorry you get a nice view of whats going on and if queue jumpers think that we are going to sit there all day while they are pushing in then you are going to find a lorry in your way and this helps clear the jam, I bet they would not push into a queue at the check out in a supermarket, I hope you understand what I have said, also I think that every one has failed to spot the problem at the roundabout by the railway bridge apart from the bad driving of some people speeding but the railway bridge was most probably built in the days of the horse and cart and to have said bridge widened would not only cost so many millions it would cause problems on the trains as well but unless this is done then this problem will not go away and the approach to said roundabout needs to be looked at as this has not been changed in many years.
Reply ID 58439
There's some paint drying on my walls if anyone's interested.
Reply ID 58441
Sorry jez-p that you failed to understand what I have written but all queue jumpers can kiss the rear end of my tailer and James you keep going off the topic are you on another forum?
Reply ID 58443
Pretty much everywhere else i have driven in Europe, 2 lane queueing and then alternate merging is the norm. The idiocy of what happens here due to the lack of common sense of some is mind boggling.
Reply ID 58451
quote:We were stuck in a queue on the M1 last year late at night because of road works. Cars kept flying past trying to jump in ahead when they obviously knew why the cars were queueing and had ignored numerous signs. The lorry in front of us moved out to block the outside lane and we cheered. Best thing ever! [8D]
Originally posted by night owl
Sorry jez-p that you failed to understand what I have written but all queue jumpers can kiss the rear end of my tailer and James you keep going off the topic are you on another forum?
Reply ID 58456
quote:The question is;- why were you all in only one lane? Did the signs direct you to use only one lane?
Originally posted by Harranquote:We were stuck in a queue on the M1 last year late at night because of road works. Cars kept flying past trying to jump in ahead when they obviously knew why the cars were queueing and had ignored numerous signs. The lorry in front of us moved out to block the outside lane and we cheered. Best thing ever! [8D]
Originally posted by night owl
Sorry jez-p that you failed to understand what I have written but all queue jumpers can kiss the rear end of my tailer and James you keep going off the topic are you on another forum?
Reply ID 58459
quote:Because the signposts tell you to?
Originally posted by shuntquote:The question is;- why were you all in only one lane? Did the signs direct you to use only one lane?
Originally posted by Harranquote:We were stuck in a queue on the M1 last year late at night because of road works. Cars kept flying past trying to jump in ahead when they obviously knew why the cars were queueing and had ignored numerous signs. The lorry in front of us moved out to block the outside lane and we cheered. Best thing ever! [8D]
Originally posted by night owl
Sorry jez-p that you failed to understand what I have written but all queue jumpers can kiss the rear end of my tailer and James you keep going off the topic are you on another forum?
Reply ID 58461
Well said Harran I am glad that some understands that queue jumpers are not liked and this is just ignorant driving by them and they need to join the end of the queue even if the right hand lane is clear for a few hundred yards and read the signs and the reason for long queues is not just the road works but queue jumpers who double the size of the queue, so when you see me straddling both lanes you now know why! [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by Harranquote:We were stuck in a queue on the M1 last year late at night because of road works. Cars kept flying past trying to jump in ahead when they obviously knew why the cars were queueing and had ignored numerous signs. The lorry in front of us moved out to block the outside lane and we cheered. Best thing ever! [8D]
Originally posted by night owl
Sorry jez-p that you failed to understand what I have written but all queue jumpers can kiss the rear end of my tailer and James you keep going off the topic are you on another forum?
Reply ID 58463
quote:You'd fail an LGV or LPV test for doing so. The problem of obstructive lorry drivers has become so great that Highways is often forced to display "Use both lanes" signs to counter it. The procedure when traffic is queueing is to use both lanes and merge one to one. When the traffic is moving, one should merge in good time. Two different traffic conditions and two different tactics to match each.
Originally posted by night owl
Well said Harran I am glad that some understands that queue jumpers are not liked and this is just ignorant driving by them and they need to join the end of the queue even if the right hand lane is clear for a few hundred yards and read the signs and the reason for long queues is not just the road works but queue jumpers who double the size of the queue, so when you see me straddling both lanes you now know why! [:D]quote:
Originally posted by Harranquote:We were stuck in a queue on the M1 last year late at night because of road works. Cars kept flying past trying to jump in ahead when they obviously knew why the cars were queueing and had ignored numerous signs. The lorry in front of us moved out to block the outside lane and we cheered. Best thing ever! [8D]
Originally posted by night owl
Sorry jez-p that you failed to understand what I have written but all queue jumpers can kiss the rear end of my tailer and James you keep going off the topic are you on another forum?
Reply ID 58465
quote:What, exactly, did the signposts indicate? It is very unusual to be directly instructed to queue in single file. In fact, over 34 years of driving vehicles of all classes, I have never seen one which does not apply only by weight or width.
Originally posted by aubendquote:Because the signposts tell you to?
Originally posted by shuntquote:The question is;- why were you all in only one lane? Did the signs direct you to use only one lane?
Originally posted by Harranquote:We were stuck in a queue on the M1 last year late at night because of road works. Cars kept flying past trying to jump in ahead when they obviously knew why the cars were queueing and had ignored numerous signs. The lorry in front of us moved out to block the outside lane and we cheered. Best thing ever! [8D]
Originally posted by night owl
Sorry jez-p that you failed to understand what I have written but all queue jumpers can kiss the rear end of my tailer and James you keep going off the topic are you on another forum?
Reply ID 58469
The sign posts indicate that the lane ahead is blocked and it is just common sense to move over and join the back of the queue and it is the polite and reasonable thing to do as it as already been explained what happens when people queue jump and you should also know then that there are signs that tell you to change lane, like on the M25 where it goes from 4 lanes to 3 lanes and shunt I have been driving just as long as you have and hold a number of licenses including a tank license as I have driven almost everything the military has to offer and I instruct on LGV 1.
Reply ID 58473
quote:As previously stated, it depends on the conditions. Lane merges in moving traffic are an entirely different scenario and should be anticipated in advance. To end up in the longest queue when approaching multi-laned queueing traffic suggests lack of forthought and is frustrating when it happens. To retrospectively change lane, block others, or shut out merging traffic, is perhaps a response to that annoyance, but never correct, whatever your opinion of the other driver. I sincerely hope you do not instruct your pupils to use the vehicle's size beligerently or to "police" other road users.[:0] Blocking is only really justified for safety reasons, e.g. to prevent a motorist being caught by the rear overhang at a left turn. There are a few other situations when you may use your own vehicle positioning to prompt a response from another road user, but this isn't one of them. If you have any doubt, ask yourself if you'd approve the same stunt if strapped to the back of your vehicle, rather than sitting up front.
Originally posted by night owl
The sign posts indicate that the lane ahead is blocked and it is just common sense to move over and join the back of the queue and it is the polite and reasonable thing to do as it as already been explained what happens when people queue jump and you should also know then that there are signs that tell you to change lane, like on the M25 where it goes from 4 lanes to 3 lanes and shunt I have been driving just as long as you have and hold a number of licenses including a tank license as I have driven almost everything the military has to offer and I instruct on LGV 1.
Reply ID 58485
Hi Shunt I do not think you drive a LGV or you would know what I am on about and you would also know how much space is left in front of a lorry and you should also know your highway code as you must know what a keep left sign is and this is used in some road works and I have never heard of anyone driving a lorry from the rear with the exception of a rear steer and even if I was that driver I would tell the driver up front to block off the queue jumpers and I would never block off emergency vehicles intentionally, so all queue jumpers can kiss my rear end of my trailer and if any one thinks they have spotted me in Tesco,s please try and queue jump me and see what happens, ho ho ho dam just fell off my pearch again he he he.
Reply ID 58487
Night Owl, there is no point trying to argue with Shunt (especially on any subject relating to roads / cars / driving). He is always right. Apparently.
Reply ID 58491
quote:You're right, I have not been a professional driver for some years now, but I do remember how frustrating it could be and how little most car drivers seemed to understand of the differences size and weight make. Very tempting to take the law into one's own hands when the roads are full of arrogant idiots, which is often the way it seems from the cab (motorcyclists have the same problem in reverse). I have a sympathy for the way you feel about this, but my own view is that aggressive driving, even if in response to aggressive driving, never helps safety, traffic flow or blood pressure. "Ho, ho, ho", is indeed your best response, for the sake of your heart and sanity.[:)] There's nothing more likely to make other drivers think, than a trucker creased up with laughter at their incompetence.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Shunt I do not think you drive a LGV or you would know what I am on about and you would also know how much space is left in front of a lorry and you should also know your highway code as you must know what a keep left sign is and this is used in some road works and I have never heard of anyone driving a lorry from the rear with the exception of a rear steer and even if I was that driver I would tell the driver up front to block off the queue jumpers and I would never block off emergency vehicles intentionally, so all queue jumpers can kiss my rear end of my trailer and if any one thinks they have spotted me in Tesco,s please try and queue jump me and see what happens, ho ho ho dam just fell off my pearch again he he he.
Reply ID 58494
quote:You are correct. I'm a really crap driver, but I can work out how it should be done. I always argue from logic, rather than expertise on the basis that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Live long and prosper.[:)]
Originally posted by aubend
Night Owl, there is no point trying to argue with Shunt (especially on any subject relating to roads / cars / driving). He is always right. Apparently.
Reply ID 58497
night owl, I couldn't actually care less what you drive and for how long. Your "queue jumping" mentality is bad for the roads. I have enjoyed reading your rants calling people selfish when you admit you straddle the white lines. Clearly the irony is lost on you. The lanes are there to be used. Merge like a zip at the end. There are so many complete morons (and self-appointed "experts") on the road who think that people are "queue jumping" when they're just using all of the road. Nobody is queueing to get in for anything, it's just traffic. Also, I can't quite work out what "queue jumpers who double the size of the queue" means - because the queue is the same size, there's just more than one lane. This "queue jumping" thing comes from people who don't want someone to "get in front of them". There is no queue for anything, and nobody is jumping a queue, it's just merging traffic. An annoying, simpleton mentality.
Reply ID 58503
The only signs I have ever seen at queues are ones that say "Use Both Lanes" and "Merge In Turn" Althought I haven't seen them for many years and even with the signs people still queued in one lane. The signs usually indicate something along the lines that the right hand lane will disappear in 1 mile, 800 yds ... not get into the left hand lane now. Just because a lane will disappear further along the road doesn't mean that you shouldn't use it - otherwise it is a waste of tarmac! Yes I am one of those people that choses the shorter queue in the right hand lane because if I go in the left hand lane then lots of people will go past me on the right and push in front of me slowing me down. If everybody had my attitude there would be no problem!
Reply ID 58507
Ho ho ho theres a twit-to-woo on here he he he I suggest every one who disagrees reads what I have written and try to think what I am saying as I have a very good view from my cab and can see a long way ahead which car drivers cannot and can see whats going on with idiots using the right hand lane just to queue jump and this has a knock on effect for polite people waiting in the left lane and they have to wait twice as long to clear the road works, jez-p and steven do you understand this yet? and do you think its fair that people in the left lane should have to wait for all these queue jumpers? Ho ho ho Merry Christmas has anyone seen my mate Henry the Turkey?
Reply ID 58517
Sorry night owl but you're talking rubbish. Why have a one mile queue when you can have a 1/2 mile queue because there's another lane for vehicles to use? If people merge sensibly (which is the real problem, surely) everything would still flow relatively freely. There are two lanes for a reason at these junctions. Isn't it all commonsense?
Reply ID 58523
quote:It makes no difference what you think. This is in the highway code, which being an HGV instructor you will know about. People have to get out of this "queue jumping" mentality. There is no queue, it's just traffic, and it needs managing. All those that sit in one lane causing a tailback that's twice as long (potentially hitting the previous roundabout causing more problems) do not know how to drive. Those that straddle white lines to prevent it are selfish, dangerous and petty. "I'm not letting him in front of me!" - pathetic.
Originally posted by night owl
Ho ho ho theres a twit-to-woo on here he he he I suggest every one who disagrees reads what I have written and try to think what I am saying as I have a very good view from my cab and can see a long way ahead which car drivers cannot and can see whats going on with idiots using the right hand lane just to queue jump and this has a knock on effect for polite people waiting in the left lane and they have to wait twice as long to clear the road works, jez-p and steven do you understand this yet? and do you think its fair that people in the left lane should have to wait for all these queue jumpers? Ho ho ho Merry Christmas has anyone seen my mate Henry the Turkey?
Reply ID 58525
Trouble is the traffic doesn’t move fast enough through Hertford to allow the people in the right lane to merge quickly, hence causing the longer delays in the left lane, and the queues you mention back and past the roundabout than if it was single file before the lane closed. Agree some people think that they are above queuing in traffic and always try to beat the car in front of them, but I have seen it on lane closers on the A10 several times for example where traffic had vacated the closed lane before it closes and the traffic moves fine, then other times cars remain in the closed lane right till the last minute and yes we all no what happens then.
Reply ID 58526
Hi Steven sorry you do not know what a queue looks like or what a queue jumper looks like but no doubt in time you will find out, the roundabout in Hertford by the bridge they do need to form two lanes and use the zip effect and no problems but when you have people flying down the right hand lane at 60 plus and cutting people up on the yellow stripes then thats a problem anyway I am away now so I will catch you all on the flip side, so ten ten til we meet again,and may the blue light never shine on you, Im up Im down and Im gone.
Reply ID 58530
Erm, ok then rubber duck! I am well aware what a queue is, but again it is not a queue, it's traffic. People aren't lining up to get something on a first-come, first-served basis. This "queue jumping" mentality is ridiculous. People need to re-read the highway code again and learn that using both lanes to merge is the correct way to do it. Just because a load of people that can't think for themselves prefer to sit in one long line doesn't make those that do know how to drive "queue jumpers". It simply marks them out as having common sense. Those that seem to think they're doing some good by blocking off lanes are idiots, sorry. You cause even more traffic because you remove road area. You will be pulled over if the police see you doing it, and rightly so.
Reply ID 58555
Luton Airport is a mess, Steven please read what I have already written about people merging with the left hand queue at all points along it as this means the polite motorist already queueing have to wait double or longer to clear said roadworks and it is very annoying to sit their watching people deliberately queue jumping because they have no patience no manners and take the attiude of stuff you jack and then a truck has to straddle both lanes to let the traffic clear and this does work it may be wrong but if people had more consideration for other road users then this would not be needed but if you see a lorry doing this and the traffic is stopped then please feel free to have a word with the driver and Im sure he will tell you the facts of life as is he just teaching these road hogs a bit of patience and manners for which they clearly lack and it is just easier for a truck to do this than a car and for other people who say about the lack of signs well do you need a road sign to tell you when to indicate and when to change gear every foot of the way when plain common sense and manners would suffice? I have straddled two lanes and the police have seen me do this but they know why this is done because it brings down the number of vehicles stuck at this spot and queue jumpers are just plain rude idiots!
Reply ID 58556
Full stop. [:D] ...and I speak with confidence when I say that if the Police did see you doing this, then you would be pulled over and spoken to. You could then give them you're wordly advice.
Reply ID 58557
You would be "pulled over and spoken to" B*ll*cks! If you were committing an offence you would be reported for summons, not "spoken to"
Reply ID 58559
quote:Yes Buzz, but its not a normal thing to see Police Vehicles queuing through there, They either use Thieves Lane, or if on a call, go through on Blues n Twos. Chances of getting caught are slim, people dont care and so it continues.
Originally posted by buzz
You would be "pulled over and spoken to" B*ll*cks! If you were committing an offence you would be reported for summons, not "spoken to"
Reply ID 58583
Sorry what offence was that, I was just changing lane! [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by buzz
You would be "pulled over and spoken to" B*ll*cks! If you were committing an offence you would be reported for summons, not "spoken to"
Reply ID 58585
I have seen Police cars straddling both lane to impede "queue jumping". Very effective it is to! :-) P
quote:
Originally posted by steven Those that seem to think they're doing some good by blocking off lanes are idiots, sorry. You cause even more traffic because you remove road area. You will be pulled over if the police see you doing it, and rightly so.
Reply ID 58586
quote:Police do it for an entirely different reason, unconnected with queueing.
Originally posted by Paul
I have seen Police cars straddling both lane to impede "queue jumping". Very effective it is to! :-) Pquote:
Originally posted by steven Those that seem to think they're doing some good by blocking off lanes are idiots, sorry. You cause even more traffic because you remove road area. You will be pulled over if the police see you doing it, and rightly so.
Reply ID 58587
quote:When police do this, it is for an entirely different reason and nothing to do with "queue jumping".
Originally posted by Paul
I have seen Police cars straddling both lane to impede "queue jumping". Very effective it is to! :-) Pquote:
Originally posted by steven Those that seem to think they're doing some good by blocking off lanes are idiots, sorry. You cause even more traffic because you remove road area. You will be pulled over if the police see you doing it, and rightly so.
Reply ID 58591
My experience of this junction is that the people who arrive at the bottleneck in the right hand lane have RARELY done so by complying with the 40 mph speed limit - that is why people are reluctant to let them in.
Reply ID 58592
quote:Oh? And for what "entirely different reason"?
Originally posted by shuntquote:When police do this, it is for an entirely different reason and nothing to do with "queue jumping".
Originally posted by Paul
I have seen Police cars straddling both lane to impede "queue jumping". Very effective it is to! :-) Pquote:
Originally posted by steven Those that seem to think they're doing some good by blocking off lanes are idiots, sorry. You cause even more traffic because you remove road area. You will be pulled over if the police see you doing it, and rightly so.
Reply ID 58593
quote:Usually to control speed or to clear a lane approaching an, as yet unmarked, temporary hazzard. You seem determined to make me state the bleedin' obvious of late. Incidentally, referring to your earlier post, I'm surprised you are not aware that police often stop and advise drivers, rather than remotely reporting offences from their car.
Originally posted by buzzquote:Oh? And for what "entirely different reason"?
Originally posted by shuntquote:When police do this, it is for an entirely different reason and nothing to do with "queue jumping".
Originally posted by Paul
I have seen Police cars straddling both lane to impede "queue jumping". Very effective it is to! :-) Pquote:
Originally posted by steven Those that seem to think they're doing some good by blocking off lanes are idiots, sorry. You cause even more traffic because you remove road area. You will be pulled over if the police see you doing it, and rightly so.
Reply ID 58596
quote:So you agree then that drivers using the right hand lane are very often exceeding the speed limit? Police may advise drivers, but if they are not committing an offence, for which they could be reported for summons, the very same drivers are entitled to tell the police to stop harrassing them. I suggest Shunt, that you use your bottom for the purpose it was intended for, rather than from speaking from it.
Originally posted by shuntquote:Usually to control speed or to clear a lane approaching a, as yet unmarked, temporary hazzard. You seem determined to make me state the bleedin' obvious of late. Incidentally, referring to your earlier post, I'm surprised you are not aware that police often stop and advise drivers, rather than remotely reporting offenses from their car.
Originally posted by buzzquote:Oh? And for what "entirely different reason"?
Originally posted by shuntquote:When police do this, it is for an entirely different reason and nothing to do with "queue jumping".
Originally posted by Paul
I have seen Police cars straddling both lane to impede "queue jumping". Very effective it is to! :-) Pquote:
Originally posted by steven Those that seem to think they're doing some good by blocking off lanes are idiots, sorry. You cause even more traffic because you remove road area. You will be pulled over if the police see you doing it, and rightly so.
Reply ID 58597
quote:No, you might stray from worrying about your spelling for a moment and practice comprehension. There are many reasons that traffic, travelling within the speed limit, may need to be slowed, including the ones mentioned. If you think traffic police report every offence for prosecution and never choose to just warn, you are mistaken. If you wish to check that, force yourself to watch one of those awful police/driving programs on television, or ask a traffic policeman.
Originally posted by buzzquote:So you agree then that drivers using the right hand lane are very often exceeding the speed limit? Police may advise drivers, but if they are not committing an offence, for which they could be reported for summons, the very same drivers are entitled to tell the police to stop harrassing them. I suggest Shunt, that you use your bottom for the purpose it was intended for, rather than from speaking from it.
Originally posted by shuntquote:Usually to control speed or to clear a lane approaching a, as yet unmarked, temporary hazzard. You seem determined to make me state the bleedin' obvious of late. Incidentally, referring to your earlier post, I'm surprised you are not aware that police often stop and advise drivers, rather than remotely reporting offenses from their car.
Originally posted by buzzquote:Oh? And for what "entirely different reason"?
Originally posted by shuntquote:When police do this, it is for an entirely different reason and nothing to do with "queue jumping".
Originally posted by Paul
I have seen Police cars straddling both lane to impede "queue jumping". Very effective it is to! :-) Pquote:
Originally posted by steven Those that seem to think they're doing some good by blocking off lanes are idiots, sorry. You cause even more traffic because you remove road area. You will be pulled over if the police see you doing it, and rightly so.
Reply ID 58598
quote:That's rubbish. As a retired Police Officer I can tell you you would not be pulled over. You are using the road as you are entitled to.
Originally posted by steven
Erm, ok then rubber duck! I am well aware what a queue is, but again it is not a queue, it's traffic. People aren't lining up to get something on a first-come, first-served basis. This "queue jumping" mentality is ridiculous. People need to re-read the highway code again and learn that using both lanes to merge is the correct way to do it. Just because a load of people that can't think for themselves prefer to sit in one long line doesn't make those that do know how to drive "queue jumpers". It simply marks them out as having common sense. Those that seem to think they're doing some good by blocking off lanes are idiots, sorry. You cause even more traffic because you remove road area. You will be pulled over if the police see you doing it, and rightly so.
Reply ID 58599
quote:Now that I agree with. Police would most likely ignore it. That does not mean that the road is being used properly though. Intent is the key, i.e. is it deliberate obstruction or just poor lane discipline? Somewhat difficult to prove.
Originally posted by buzzquote:That's rubbish. As a retired Police Officer I can tell you you would not be pulled over. You are using the road as you are entitled to.
Originally posted by steven
Erm, ok then rubber duck! I am well aware what a queue is, but again it is not a queue, it's traffic. People aren't lining up to get something on a first-come, first-served basis. This "queue jumping" mentality is ridiculous. People need to re-read the highway code again and learn that using both lanes to merge is the correct way to do it. Just because a load of people that can't think for themselves prefer to sit in one long line doesn't make those that do know how to drive "queue jumpers". It simply marks them out as having common sense. Those that seem to think they're doing some good by blocking off lanes are idiots, sorry. You cause even more traffic because you remove road area. You will be pulled over if the police see you doing it, and rightly so.
Reply ID 58602
Where there is division, let there be harmony Where there is darkness, let there be light. Here is a little light reading on the subject - from those crooks across the pond. http://docs.trb.org/01011177.pdf
quote:
Originally posted by shunt Usually to control speed or to clear a lane approaching an, as yet unmarked, temporary hazzard. You seem determined to make me state the bleedin' obvious of late. Incidentally, referring to your earlier post, I'm surprised you are not aware that police often stop and advise drivers, rather than remotely reporting offences from their car.
Reply ID 58604
Excellent. I think everyone should read and digest this fascinating document before making any more comments on this thread.
Reply ID 58606
Paul sorry to burst your bubble but the American highway code does not apply over here! [8D]
quote:
Originally posted by Paul
Where there is division, let there be harmony Where there is darkness, let there be light. Here is a little light reading on the subject - from those crooks across the pond. http://docs.trb.org/01011177.pdfquote:
Originally posted by shunt Usually to control speed or to clear a lane approaching an, as yet unmarked, temporary hazzard. You seem determined to make me state the bleedin' obvious of late. Incidentally, referring to your earlier post, I'm surprised you are not aware that police often stop and advise drivers, rather than remotely reporting offences from their car.
Reply ID 58609
quote:True, but then there's law and there's best practice. The absence of one doesn't cancel the other. Part of the problem is the belief that anything not covered by specific legislation, or a sign is OK. Hence, the amount of legislation is continually increased as people prove themselves incapable of acting reasonably without it. This document is case in point. It shouldn't have been required, but unfortunately it was.
Originally posted by night owl
Paul sorry to burst your bubble but the American highway code does not apply over here! [8D]quote:
Originally posted by Paul
Where there is division, let there be harmony Where there is darkness, let there be light. Here is a little light reading on the subject - from those crooks across the pond. http://docs.trb.org/01011177.pdfquote:
Originally posted by shunt Usually to control speed or to clear a lane approaching an, as yet unmarked, temporary hazzard. You seem determined to make me state the bleedin' obvious of late. Incidentally, referring to your earlier post, I'm surprised you are not aware that police often stop and advise drivers, rather than remotely reporting offences from their car.
Reply ID 58625
What's all the fuss about! The road has two lanes. Both there to be used so use them... easy really
Reply ID 58712
I had a driver of a Comet truck give me the finger on the roundabout the other week, because he wouldn't let me pull in to the inside lane, so I just drove over the chevrons and went all the way round the roundabout (I needed to turn left on to Campfield Rd). Perfectly entitled to cross on to the Chevrons as it's a broken whit line that borders them. The roundabout is wide enough to allow vehicles to go round it whilst people queue to go striaght over. Problem solved, or it was until he pulled out and blocked me through spite.
Reply ID 58723
Hi thefair1973 if you knew you was going to be turning left then why did you not get into the left lane earlier? [?]
quote:
Originally posted by thefair1973
I had a driver of a Comet truck give me the finger on the roundabout the other week, because he wouldn't let me pull in to the inside lane, so I just drove over the chevrons and went all the way round the roundabout (I needed to turn left on to Campfield Rd). Perfectly entitled to cross on to the Chevrons as it's a broken whit line that borders them. The roundabout is wide enough to allow vehicles to go round it whilst people queue to go striaght over. Problem solved, or it was until he pulled out and blocked me through spite.
Reply ID 58728
quote:Might be fair comment, but doesn't excuse the truck driver's actions. I reckon we all get a bit fed up with LGV drivers taking the law into their own hands and rightly so. These are professional drivers and should know the dangers of arrogance on the road and that they create additional hazzards by using their vehicle to "police" others. Everybody sees things they object to in other drivers behaviour. We dont all respond by making our vehicle a weapon, thankfully.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi thefair1973 if you knew you was going to be turning left then why did you not get into the left lane earlier? [?]quote:
Originally posted by thefair1973
I had a driver of a Comet truck give me the finger on the roundabout the other week, because he wouldn't let me pull in to the inside lane, so I just drove over the chevrons and went all the way round the roundabout (I needed to turn left on to Campfield Rd). Perfectly entitled to cross on to the Chevrons as it's a broken whit line that borders them. The roundabout is wide enough to allow vehicles to go round it whilst people queue to go striaght over. Problem solved, or it was until he pulled out and blocked me through spite.
Reply ID 58731
quote:[i] Good question...
Originally posted by night owl
Hi thefair1973 if you knew you was going to be turning left then why did you not get into the left lane earlier? [?]
Reply ID 58732
thefair1973 - why couldn't you just wait and pull in behind the lorry?
Reply ID 58733
thefair1973's story could be described a case of two wrongs not making a right, but three rights making a left?
Reply ID 58734
quote:Sorry Sarah, but we men just don't do stuff like that!
Originally posted by ~Sarah~
thefair1973 - why couldn't you just wait and pull in behind the lorry?
Reply ID 58736
Ok I have a highway code question for you all but any learners or any one who has just past their test please do not answer as you may know the correct answer,you are on your driving test and the examiner asks the following question "On a motorway or dual carriage way what is the left hand lane used for and what are the lane/lanes on your right used for? Now no cheating and I would like the answer that you should give the examiner and I know the correct answer but no prizes for the correct answer.
Reply ID 58737
Easy peasy. The left hand lane is for when you're on the phone and the outside lane is for when you want to go way over 80mph.
Reply ID 58739
quote:Overtaking slower moving traffic and when turning right on the approach to a roundabout. The exceptions being a)when traffic is moving in queues, b)when approaching merging traffic on your left and c)when the left lane is obstructed. At all other times, one should return to the left hand lane, when it is clear of slower moving vehicles, as soon as practical. There are other lane restrictions which can apply to LGVs, dependant on weight, maximum design speed, type and dimensions. The first sentence is generally all that is required by an examiner on the basic car test, but it should always be kept in mind that the Highway Code is not a definitive document.
Originally posted by night owl
Ok I have a highway code question for you all but any learners or any one who has just past their test please do not answer as you may know the correct answer,you are on your driving test and the examiner asks the following question "On a motorway or dual carriage way what is the left hand lane used for and what are the lane/lanes on your right used for? Now no cheating and I would like the answer that you should give the examiner and I know the correct answer but no prizes for the correct answer.
Reply ID 58759
Sorry Shunt but where in the question is roundabouts, traffic moving in queues, LGV,S or obstructions mentioned? [?]
quote:
Originally posted by shuntquote:Overtaking slower moving traffic and when turning right on the approach to a roundabout. The exceptions being a)when traffic is moving in queues, b)when approaching merging traffic on your left and c)when the left lane is obstructed. At all other times, one should return to the left hand lane, when it is clear of slower moving vehicles, as soon as practical. There are other lane restrictions which can apply to LGVs, dependant on weight, maximum design speed, type and dimensions. The first sentence is generally all that is required by an examiner on the basic car test, but it should always be kept in mind that the Highway Code is not a definitive document.
Originally posted by night owl
Ok I have a highway code question for you all but any learners or any one who has just past their test please do not answer as you may know the correct answer,you are on your driving test and the examiner asks the following question "On a motorway or dual carriage way what is the left hand lane used for and what are the lane/lanes on your right used for? Now no cheating and I would like the answer that you should give the examiner and I know the correct answer but no prizes for the correct answer.
Reply ID 58761
quote:[i] Exactly. The question, as you posed it, has nothing to do with the subject, but is one tiny part of the Highway Code, taken in isolation and out of context. If you check the section on roundabouts, you will find one of the many modifications to what you believe to be set in stone. Many of the Code's statements are qualified elsewhere in the publication.
Originally posted by night owl
Sorry Shunt but where in the question is roundabouts, traffic moving in queues, LGV,S or obstructions mentioned? [?]
Reply ID 58762
quote:left hand normal traffic, right hand emergencies on a motorway (3 lane) the middle lane is for overtaking and the outside right is for emergencies only?
Originally posted by night owl
Ok I have a highway code question for you all but any learners or any one who has just past their test please do not answer as you may know the correct answer,you are on your driving test and the examiner asks the following question "On a motorway or dual carriage way what is the left hand lane used for and what are the lane/lanes on your right used for? Now no cheating and I would like the answer that you should give the examiner and I know the correct answer but no prizes for the correct answer.
Reply ID 58769
All lanes to the right of the leftmost lane are for overtaking.
Reply ID 58771
quote:So when intending to turn right at a roundabout (without specific lane markings), you and night owl would approach in the left lane? Admittedly, your emergency would be likely to be imminent under those circumstances.[:D] What about a four lane motorway, or five, or six? Four empty "emergency" lanes, one blocked by stroppy lorry drivers straddling the line and everybody else queueing meekly on the left, blocking the entry ramps. It'd take a month to get through Birmingham! The Highway Code is a recipe for disaster if each part is taken in isolation. It is intended to be taken as a whole, if only basic, guide to common road situations.
Originally posted by Millie left hand normal traffic, right hand emergencies on a motorway (3 lane) the middle lane is for overtaking and the outside right is for emergencies only?
Reply ID 58772
quote:sorry just using the motorway example where there aren't too many roundabouts. I'm quoting what I recall being told by someone 20 odd years ago who had his advanced licence...came as a surprise to me too. What I would say to an examiner and how I would drive for real are 2 different things.
Originally posted by shuntquote:So when intending to turn right at a roundabout (without specific lane markings), you and night owl would approach in the left lane? Admittedly, your emergency would be likely to be imminent under those circumstances.[:D] What about a four lane motorway, or five, or six? Four empty "emergency" lanes, one blocked by stroppy lorry drivers straddling the line and everybody else queueing meekly on the left, blocking the entry ramps. It'd take a month to get through Birmingham! The Highway Code is a recipe for disaster if each part is taken in isolation. It is intended to be taken as a whole, if only basic, guide to common road situations.
Originally posted by Millie left hand normal traffic, right hand emergencies on a motorway (3 lane) the middle lane is for overtaking and the outside right is for emergencies only?
Reply ID 58773
Millie.....I ask this with some trepidation.....please tell us that you don't drive
Reply ID 58774
quote:I do, for 25 years with only one insurance claim to my name where my car rolled off my drive into the car parked opposite because I'd not put my handbrake on properly. As I said, what I would say to an examiner and how I actually drive are 2 separate things. The question was the same one posed to me over 20 years ago and he took great delight in telling me that I was wrong and the right hand lanes were not 'fast lanes' lol
Originally posted by buzz
Millie.....I ask this with some trepidation.....please tell us that you don't drive
Reply ID 58778
quote:It is quite right that they are not "fast lanes" but neither are they "emergency lanes". I must admit that the thing that really annoys me are the members of CLOC, otherwise known as the Centre Lane Owners Club. They must own it as they never seem to move out of it even when, (admittedly on the odd occasion) there are no vehicles in lane one for as far as the eye can see!
Originally posted by Milliequote:I do, for 25 years with only one insurance claim to my name where my car rolled off my drive into the car parked opposite because I'd not put my handbrake on properly. As I said, what I would say to an examiner and how I actually drive are 2 separate things. The question was the same one posed to me over 20 years ago and he took great delight in telling me that I was wrong and the right hand lanes were not 'fast lanes' lol
Originally posted by buzz
Millie.....I ask this with some trepidation.....please tell us that you don't drive
Reply ID 58785
Hi Steve you are the nearest, the correct answer is "The left lane is for travelling in and the other lanes to the right are for overtaking, Shunt I dont know where you keep getting all these roundabouts from the question does NOT mention roundabouts or junctions, how many roundabouts have you seen on a motorway? [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
All lanes to the right of the leftmost lane are for overtaking.
Reply ID 58788
quote:Oh sorry. Was this thread about a motorway? I thought it was about queueing on a stretch of two lane, 40mph carriageway in Hertford. Of course, if we were discussing motorways, your question would not be off-topic, but the thread would be.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Steve you are the nearest, the correct answer is "The left lane is for travelling in and the other lanes to the right are for overtaking, Shunt I dont know where you keep getting all these roundabouts from the question does NOT mention roundabouts or junctions, how many roundabouts have you seen on a motorway? [:D]quote:
Originally posted by Steve
All lanes to the right of the leftmost lane are for overtaking.
Reply ID 58790
There is one simple question with only one correct answer, which is relevent to this long winded thread. Are there any circumstances, other than under direct instruction by police, that a motorist may use his/her vehicle to deliberately obstruct or hinder the progress of any other road user?
Reply ID 58793
Good to see that at 5pm today with bugger all in the way of a queue, there were still plenty hammering down the RH lane doing at least 60 and only pulling into the LH lane when they were right on the chevrons, despite there being no vehicles in the LH lane prior to that point. Still , thats what the RH lane's for eh? [V]
Reply ID 58799
Shunt please read the question or do you suffer memory loss, the question I posed does mention motorway as well as duel cariage way but you will find it does not mention roundabouts as the answer applys to both and I am trying to let people know exactly what the right hand lane is for and it does apply to this thread, so now do you understand, I am trying to take this thread forward to the correct conclusion as to queue jumpers but when thick people do not understand then it will take a lot lot longer, now do you know what the right hand lane is for?[?]
quote:
Originally posted by shuntquote:Oh sorry. Was this thread about a motorway? I thought it was about queueing on a stretch of two lane, 40mph carriageway in Hertford. Of course, if we were discussing motorways, your question would not be off-topic, but the thread would be.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Steve you are the nearest, the correct answer is "The left lane is for travelling in and the other lanes to the right are for overtaking, Shunt I dont know where you keep getting all these roundabouts from the question does NOT mention roundabouts or junctions, how many roundabouts have you seen on a motorway? [:D]quote:
Originally posted by Steve
All lanes to the right of the leftmost lane are for overtaking.
Reply ID 58800
Hi dennismoore I like your answer and if I was giving out prizes then you would have won one but you failed to mention that the left hand lane is also used for men to pick their noses and for women to put on their make up and do their hair. [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by dennismoore
Easy peasy. The left hand lane is for when you're on the phone and the outside lane is for when you want to go way over 80mph.
Reply ID 58802
Thanks Night Owl! I have to confess that I've done two of the things you mention myself, only in the right hand lane.
Reply ID 58804
I couldn't even understand the original question to be honest.
Reply ID 58809
Hi James it is just a simple question with a simple answer, sorry if it is above you and Shunt but most of the other people understand it. [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by James007
I couldn't even understand the original question to be honest.
Reply ID 58812
Is dennis a ladyboy? [;)]
Reply ID 58813
He he I just fell off my perch again, sorry dennis [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by Mack E. Avelly
Is dennis a ladyboy? [;)]
Reply ID 58817
quote:Interesting typo of duel, considering some of the filtering that occurs [:)]
Origina[:)]lly posted by night owl
Shunt please read the question or do you suffer memory loss, the question I posed does mention motorway as well as duel cariage way but you will find it does not mention roundabouts as the answer applys to both and I am trying to let people know exactly what the right hand lane is for and it does apply to this thread, so now do you understand, I am trying to take this thread forward to the correct conclusion as to queue jumpers but when thick people do not understand then it will take a lot lot longer, now do you know what the right hand lane is for?[?][quote]Originally posted by shunt
[quote]Originally posted by night owl
Hi Steve you are the nearest, the correct answer is "The left lane is for travelling in and the other lanes to the right are for overtaking, Shunt I dont know where you keep getting all these roundabouts from the question does NOT mention roundabouts or junctions, how many roundabouts have you seen on a motorway? [:D][quote]Originally posted by Steve
All lanes to the right of the leftmost lane are for overtaking.
Reply ID 58819
Night Owl. By attempting to quote a single advisory section of the highway code out of context, you distort its meaning. Other sections of the code modify the answer. It may be an adequate answer for the test, but it is incomplete and does not apply in every circumstance. The motorists to whom you object are overtaking, and so are fully complying with the section you quote. Check my question to you, which I note you've avoided answering, and you'll see it's far more relevant to the original posts and this thread. I'll repeat it for you, just to make sure. Are there any circumstances, other than under direct instruction by police, that a motorist may use his/her vehicle to deliberately obstruct or hinder the progress of any other road user?
Reply ID 58824
quote:Yes, there are actually. For a start, to protect the scene of an accident, or other hazard, ie, the end of a lane, which other motorists, by their conduct have not anticipated.
Originally posted by shunt
Night Owl. By attempting to quote a single advisory section of the highway code out of context, you distort its meaning. Other sections of the code modify the answer. It may be an adequate answer for the test, but it is incomplete and does not apply in every circumstance. The motorists to whom you object are overtaking, and so are fully complying with the section you quote. Check my question to you, which I note you've avoided answering, and you'll see it's far more relevant to the original posts and this thread. I'll repeat it for you, just to make sure. Are there any circumstances, other than under direct instruction by police, that a motorist may use his/her vehicle to deliberately obstruct or hinder the progress of any other road user?
Reply ID 58836
[/quote] Yes, there are actually. For a start, to protect the scene of an accident, or other hazard, ie, the end of a lane, which other motorists, by their conduct have not anticipated. [/quote] The first is using a vehicle as a marker rather than deliberate obstruction. Intent is all, which is why my question is phrased as it is. Vehicles in the outer lane of Hertingfordbury Road present no hazzard, just an annoyance to those who have chosen the left lane, so the second doesn't apply. For members of the public to attempt to control traffic in this context is vigilante action, competitive driving and much the same as blocking a lane to prevent another motorist exceeding the speed limit which, as an ex-copper, I'm sure you will know is also not permitted. I am fully aware that some abuse the two lane system, but blocking is never an acceptable response. Hertingfordbury Road is a surburban road with a 40mph speed limit. The extra lanes are there solely to permit side by side queueing, in order that the bottleneck of the viaduct does not effect the 70mph section beyond Hertingforbury roundabout. If used properly, there would be no empty lane to consider blocking or to dash down at reckless speed.
Reply ID 58837
quote:I prefered the term 'new romantic' back in the day. Sadly not enough hair now.
Originally posted by Mack E. Avelly
Is dennis a ladyboy? [;)]
Reply ID 58838
Hi Shunt I think you have answered your own question, I have been talking about queue jumpers flying down the outside lane then cutting up some motorist with their rude and ignorant driving, I do not know if you drive much now but you will find a lot of drivers holding up other drivers by hogging the middle lane ect. do you find this acceptable? And as I have already tried to explain how these queue jumpers cause a massive tail back and stop the flow of traffic at some road works and if I decide to change lane which can take some time for a large vehicle in slow moving traffic then you find this offensive, sorry you need to get out on the roads a bit more and I have now explained to every one what the right hand lane/lanes are for, so when a driver see,s a queue and decides he is going to overtake it then is he or is he not queue jumping? Hi Ray just a slip up I think it was the mention of using a L.G.V. as a lethal weapon, ho ho ho. Fancy a game of chicken.
Reply ID 58844
quote:I agree that competitive driving on the roads is an increasing problem, but the response should never be to allow your own standards to slip out of frustration. Blocking is competitive and in this case, has the potential to cause a hazzard further back. Though I fully understand the need to make reasonable progress in commercial vehicles, this type of thing only lowers public respect for professional drivers and makes your job harder still. This bit of road is made for "zipper" type merging. By blocking, (either the entire lane or someone seeking to merge in turn) you skew the fairness of the system in your favour. Next time you are stuck with insufficient acceleration to make a right, think why nobody is stopping to give way or leaving you a gap. Competing with bad drivers doesn't improve their attitude, but only makes it worse.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Shunt I think you have answered your own question, I have been talking about queue jumpers flying down the outside lane then cutting up some motorist with their rude and ignorant driving, I do not know if you drive much now but you will find a lot of drivers holding up other drivers by hogging the middle lane ect. do you find this acceptable? And as I have already tried to explain how these queue jumpers cause a massive tail back and stop the flow of traffic at some road works and if I decide to change lane which can take some time for a large vehicle in slow moving traffic then you find this offensive, sorry you need to get out on the roads a bit more and I have now explained to every one what the right hand lane/lanes are for, so when a driver see,s a queue and decides he is going to overtake it then is he or is he not queue jumping? Hi Ray just a slip up I think it was the mention of using a L.G.V. as a lethal weapon, ho ho ho. Fancy a game of chicken.
Reply ID 58849
Hi Shunt I think we are getting there,but what do you think of queue jumpers? And I have seen this blocking strategy work with my own eyes and it does increase the flow rate of the traffic and reduces the number of vehicles waiting to get through the road works and it teaches these road hogs or queue jumpers how to wait like everyone else! I have driven lorry,s through Hertford and been stuck at the roundabout in question in heavy traffic but it would not make sense to start playing around at this point as the waiting time is not that long compared to some roadworks or accidents that I have come across and I feel that I have saved some peoples lives by pulling out in the right lane as my view of the road ahead exceeds theirs but when I see queue jumpers who are not prepared to wait one minute and just fly down the outside with out a thought for other road users and they are followed by a stream of other vehicles and then they all want to cut in at all points in the queue and the result of their actions makes life for the better drivers a misery then something needs to be done and please remember in a lorry I have a tachograph and this means I can exceed my driving hours which is an offence, so I am expected to commit a driving offence for these idiots by waiting for them,sorry this is not going to happen, what will happen is I will start to change lane and then I might change my mind, but is some one who overtakes a queue a queue jumper?
Reply ID 58854
quote:If the person leaves the tarmac or crosses an unbroken line to overtake, he is a queue jumper. If he is on a ligitimate carriageway, he is not. The correct place to filter is right at the front, not half-way down, unless the traffic is moving at speed. By blocking the carriageway you give an advantage to yourself and anyone ahead of you only, so it will seem quicker to you and you will certainly see traffic ahead of you clearing faster. You will be causing bunching behind you though, and that traffic will meet the queue sooner, slowing their journey time and increasing congestion overall. If your tacho time runs out before the end of your journey, your route is incorrectly scheduled. If you make it possible, by being tempted to selfish driving practice, it will always remain so. You should never be in the position of having to "race" against your tacho to the detriment of driving standards.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Shunt I think we are getting there,but what do you think of queue jumpers? And I have seen this blocking strategy work with my own eyes and it does increase the flow rate of the traffic and reduces the number of vehicles waiting to get through the road works and it teaches these road hogs or queue jumpers how to wait like everyone else! I have driven lorry,s through Hertford and been stuck at the roundabout in question in heavy traffic but it would not make sense to start playing around at this point as the waiting time is not that long compared to some roadworks or accidents that I have come across and I feel that I have saved some peoples lives by pulling out in the right lane as my view of the road ahead exceeds theirs but when I see queue jumpers who are not prepared to wait one minute and just fly down the outside with out a thought for other road users and they are followed by a stream of other vehicles and then they all want to cut in at all points in the queue and the result of their actions makes life for the better drivers a misery then something needs to be done and please remember in a lorry I have a tachograph and this means I can exceed my driving hours which is an offence, so I am expected to commit a driving offence for these idiots by waiting for them,sorry this is not going to happen, what will happen is I will start to change lane and then I might change my mind, but is some one who overtakes a queue a queue jumper?
Reply ID 58855
quote:The first is using a vehicle as a marker rather than deliberate obstruction. Intent is all, which is why my question is phrased as it is. Vehicles in the outer lane of Hertingfordbury Road present no hazzard, just an annoyance to those who have chosen the left lane, so the second doesn't apply. For members of the public to attempt to control traffic in this context is vigilante action, competitive driving and much the same as blocking a lane to prevent another motorist exceeding the speed limit which, as an ex-copper, I'm sure you will know is also not permitted. I am fully aware that some abuse the two lane system, but blocking is never an acceptable response. Hertingfordbury Road is a surburban road with a 40mph speed limit. The extra lanes are there solely to permit side by side queueing, in order that the bottleneck of the viaduct does not effect the 70mph section beyond Hertingforbury roundabout. If used properly, there would be no empty lane to consider blocking or to dash down at reckless speed. [/quote] The first instance is not using the vehicle as a "marker". It is deliberately blocking traffic to protect the scene of an accident, and prevent drivers from ploughing into it. I didn't suggest that the vehicles in the right-hand lane were a hazard. The hazard is the fact that the road converges into one lane, and a driver in the left-hand lane, seeing a vehicle in his mirror, approaching the convergence, at speed, might well consider that said driver had not anticipated the hazard, and in an attempt to prevent an accident might well straddle the lanes to prevent the other driver from an accident. I fear that you are never going to convert me to your point of view, and equally, I am never going to make you see sense. This thread is now going round in circles, and I would not be surprised if Admin decided to lock it
Originally posted by shunt
Yes, there are actually. For a start, to protect the scene of an accident, or other hazard, ie, the end of a lane, which other motorists, by their conduct have not anticipated.
Reply ID 58858
I think this section of the Highway Code answers the question: "A driver may overtake a stationery line of traffic on a dual carriageway under exceptional circumstances which are 1) You are late for tea 2) The footy is about to start 3) You drive a BMW."
Reply ID 58860
quote:you forgot, 'you may also undertake/use the hard shoulder if late for Xmas panto role"
Originally posted by aubend
I think this section of the Highway Code answers the question: "A driver may overtake a stationery line of traffic on a dual carriageway under exceptional circumstances which are 1) You are late for tea 2) The footy is about to start 3) You drive a BMW."
Reply ID 58862
Hi Shunt you call it blocking I call it changing lane and if queue jumpers do not know how their very poor driving affects other road users then they can learn the hard way and I am not the only trucker in this country that does this and as for my route being incorrectly scheduled you are talking out of your rear end, so you know every day and every minute where every accident and every road works are in the U.K.
Reply ID 58864
quote:Unless it is not placed in a position which is more likely to be seen than the accident itself, it is. If it is not thus placed, there is little point. However, you are the only one who has correctly identified a positive reason for using a vehicle to divert traffic, though not one which applies in this case, which is what I hoped for. This is not an accident or an temporary hazzard. As for example no.2., how would one make such a judgement and execute it safely? If the driver is judged to be unaware, pulling out from a stationary row of traffic only reduces the distance left to brake and may produce an outcome which would not have otherwise occured. It is a very different matter if you are able to match the other vehicle's speed in the same lane and gradually slow, (during the approach to the back of the queue, for instance.) Mine isn't an argument of "I'm the best driver?", but one against that attitude. I was genuinely interested to see if anyone could find a justification for the tit-for-tat behaviour described.
The first instance is not using the vehicle as a "marker".
Reply ID 58879
quote:Please explain to me how 50 cars in the left hand lane and none in the right would cause less congestion that 25 in the left and 25 in the right hand lane, filtering into a single lane in a zipper function as shunt explained. You can't. Because you're wrong. [;)]
Originally posted by night owl
And I have seen this blocking strategy work with my own eyes and it does increase the flow rate of the traffic and reduces the number of vehicles waiting to get through the road works and it teaches these road hogs or queue jumpers how to wait like everyone else!
Reply ID 58883
I have already explained please read previous messages. [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by Brockmanquote:Please explain to me how 50 cars in the left hand lane and none in the right would cause less congestion that 25 in the left and 25 in the right hand lane, filtering into a single lane in a zipper function as shunt explained. You can't. Because you're wrong. [;)]
Originally posted by night owl
And I have seen this blocking strategy work with my own eyes and it does increase the flow rate of the traffic and reduces the number of vehicles waiting to get through the road works and it teaches these road hogs or queue jumpers how to wait like everyone else!
Reply ID 58884
quote:"zipper function"? I've heard of cars being extensions of certain parts, but that's ridiculous.
Originally posted by Brockmanquote:Please explain to me how 50 cars in the left hand lane and none in the right would cause less congestion that 25 in the left and 25 in the right hand lane, filtering into a single lane in a zipper function as shunt explained. You can't. Because you're wrong. [;)]
Originally posted by night owl
And I have seen this blocking strategy work with my own eyes and it does increase the flow rate of the traffic and reduces the number of vehicles waiting to get through the road works and it teaches these road hogs or queue jumpers how to wait like everyone else!
Reply ID 58885
Aubend please read the porsche thread, ho ho ho [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by aubendquote:"zipper function"? I've heard of cars being extensions of certain parts, but that's ridiculous.
Originally posted by Brockmanquote:Please explain to me how 50 cars in the left hand lane and none in the right would cause less congestion that 25 in the left and 25 in the right hand lane, filtering into a single lane in a zipper function as shunt explained. You can't. Because you're wrong. [;)]
Originally posted by night owl
And I have seen this blocking strategy work with my own eyes and it does increase the flow rate of the traffic and reduces the number of vehicles waiting to get through the road works and it teaches these road hogs or queue jumpers how to wait like everyone else!
Reply ID 58892
<-------just working out now why her initial post in this thread met with such derision [:I] Making mental note to read the whole of a thread before piping up in future.
Reply ID 58895
Aubend Sorry to hear you do not know what a zip is short for, I take you have a button up fly and drive a Porsche. Ho ho ho.
Reply ID 58899
This really is a farce of a thread!!! I would be very concerned if as a commercial business person any of my professional drivers decided to take the law into their own hands and blocked a carriageway!! I can't for the life of me see how people can't understand that two queues of 25 cars courteously integrating alternatively ( as instructed to do so by an increasing number of Highway Agency signs.... who are probably also concerned at double length single queues)is safer, and quicker than one long queue of 50. Perhaps its the courteous alternation that people don't like?? Is it because some people travel too fast to the point of integration, or they had the nerve to do it or something else? Anywho.... by creating some sort of self important, aren't I the hero of the road, rolling road block you are forcing vehicles to alternately integrate behind you when you get to the point of convergence anyway. So you are arguing against yourself as it happens as intended. Therefore it must be because you do not like the speed some people "force" there way to the front, that would then make your rolling road block a very dangerous act wouldn't it!! You must be very proud of yourself!!
Reply ID 58901
Yep I sure am please can you read the thread properly!
Reply ID 58903
Hi Nuts I take it you must have a very good turn over and profit to be able to let your trucks sit on the road doing nothing and going over their tacho hours thats if they do any distance, perhaps you should start checking your tachographs before the ministry does and then where would you be without an operators licence!
Reply ID 58905
The problem seems to be that MOST of the time when there is a Q forming that people seem to form in the left hand lane wrongly or rightly ! The mere fact that most people do keep to left is either.. They BELIEVE its the right thing to do according to the Highway code. or They are just being English and Q'ing in what they see as an orderly and fair/fashion. either way I can see how people get irritated by people using the right hand/overtaking lane to zip to the front. Because... They dont understand/agree with it and therefore Filtering doesnt work in this case(obviously)... filtering would ONLY work if everyone new and understood the correct procedure, which is evidently not the case on this stretch of road. (maybe a simple sign would help?) Sooo....zipdown the right lane as and when you wish but dont expect people to let you in with a smile...they dont understand/agree with you...hence the big Q you just passed...
Reply ID 58906
Thank you Frenchie, in this country we drive on the left and you are suppose to keep left.
Reply ID 58907
quote:I think you mis-understood Frencie's post.
Originally posted by night owl
Thank you Frenchie, in this country we drive on the left and you are suppose to keep left.
Reply ID 58909
quote:An operators licence would be likely to be withdrawn if it were suspected that drivers were encouraged, directly or by unrealistic scheduling, to habitually lower driving standards to keep within hours.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Nuts I take it you must have a very good turn over and profit to be able to let your trucks sit on the road doing nothing and going over their tacho hours thats if they do any distance, perhaps you should start checking your tachographs before the ministry does and then where would you be without an operators licence!
Reply ID 58913
Hi Shunt I think you have mis-understood Frenchies post and mine, please can you drive on the left, many thanks. [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by shuntquote:I think you mis-understood Frencie's post.
Originally posted by night owl
Thank you Frenchie, in this country we drive on the left and you are suppose to keep left.
Reply ID 58917
Hi I am still trying to get the message across of what happens at some road works and the effect that queue jumping has, I have seen it that bad that the left hand queue comes to a stop and mean while people keep coming down the right hand lane and push in and they are followed by more and more cars and the people on the left are just trapped and no movement and they are expected just to sit there hour after hour, now how would you like that to happen to you? Do you think this is fair driving by the constant stream of queue jumpers coming down the other lane and blocking the left hand lane in?
Reply ID 58919
Shunt, my post supports the view that the best way is indeed to use the 2 lanes and to filter down to one lane....in an ideal world... But ! As the majority of people evidently feel that keeping to the left hand lane in these situations/road layouts is the right thing to do (both local and people passing thru), I too shall be joining them on the left and scowling at those who fly past the good Q'ing British public in the right hand lane...!
Reply ID 58922
quote:That's what I thought. Unfortunately, there are many such myths, which continue only by the re-enforcement of the scowling masses.[:D] Scowl away, everyone's entitled to be grumpy and queue unessecarily, but don't ever block. That is impolite, competitive and unfair and causes much of the congestion in our towns and cities. I'm actually a big fan of polite queueing[:)], but not in the wrong place[B)]. I'm sorry, I will be in whichever queue is shortest. I suspect that until enough people crash into the back of the queue and highways spend £40,000 to put up one of those "use both lanes" signs, that will be the right hand lane for a while longer.
Originally posted by Frenchie
Shunt, my post supports the view that the best way is indeed to use the 2 lanes and to filter down to one lane....in an ideal world... But ! As the majority of people evidently feel that keeping to the left hand lane in these situations/road layouts is the right thing to do (both local and people passing thru), I too shall be joining them on the left and scowling at those who fly past the good Q'ing British public in the right hand lane...!
Reply ID 58935
I think the sticking point is peoples ideas of 'merge', with the 'right-hand laners' assuming this means 'when the road runs out'. I might be so bold as to suggest that merging would work better if it started back where the speed limit drops to 40, as it seems contrary to the smooth flow of traffic to start a second queue simply by not merging soon enough.
Reply ID 58938
quote:In moving traffic, I agree and it's annoying and dangerous to do otherwise, but the procedure is different when the traffic is queueing, in which case the merging should properly take place at the front. Therein lies the confusion. The correct protocol for the first scenario is rigidly applied by some to the second and the mixture of the two causes chaos and bad feeling.
Originally posted by Ted Badger
I think the sticking point is peoples ideas of 'merge', with the 'right-hand laners' assuming this means 'when the road runs out'. I might be so bold as to suggest that merging would work better if it started back where the speed limit drops to 40, as it seems contrary to the smooth flow of traffic to start a second queue simply by not merging soon enough.
Reply ID 58960
Hi Shunt you are mixing to different senario,s together and you sound very confused and you are mixing the first where as you have two lanes already full with a volume of traffic with a road that is clear on the right and a queue on the left and this is what we are talking about!
Reply ID 58964
quote:Part of the problem is that there is no clear definition of what is a queue. I'd suggest that it is a traffic situation when you are likely to have to come to a full stop as a result of more than two vehicles ahead of you. I'm not confused in any way at all. For two lanes to become already full of traffic, someone has to be the first to queue on the right. If the left hand lane is already stationary, when viewed from a distant approach, to select the most full lane would indicate poor anticipation of the road ahead, unless of course, you are in a long vehicle or one towing a trailer and/or the queue is short enough to make the manouver redundant. Certainly an element of on the spot judgement is required and a dollop of courtesy from all, but then that is the essence of good driving.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Shunt you are mixing to different senario,s together and you sound very confused and you are mixing the first where as you have two lanes already full with a volume of traffic with a road that is clear on the right and a queue on the left and this is what we are talking about!
Reply ID 58971
Hi Shunt sorry that you do not know what the definition of a queue is and why do you keep adding things, you are just confusing yourself and other people!
Reply ID 58972
quote:[?]
Originally posted by night owl
Aubend Sorry to hear you do not know what a zip is short for, I take you have a button up fly and drive a Porsche. Ho ho ho.
Reply ID 58976
quote:I repeat, I am not confused in any way. You seem to filter selectively. I have provided you with a useable definition of a queue, as a service to you, since there is not one in the Highway Code, or the driving test, and these seem to be your only source of reference, or at least you appear to be in possession of one page torn from each. I have added nothing, other than to correct your own ommissions. The HC is a document in which many sections are qualified by another. To quote one section in isolation, changes the meaning, a bit like reading a "no access" sign and failing to read the "except for...." board below it. The basic instruction to drive on the left has many such exceptions, which you appear to have ignored, possibly because they don't happen to support your point of view. Without those exceptions, the entire country would be chugging along in single file at the pace of the slowest vehicle, driven by the least confident driver.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Shunt sorry that you do not know what the definition of a queue is and why do you keep adding things, you are just confusing yourself and other people!
Reply ID 58978
Hi Shunt you are so wrong I have never said do not overtake so as everyone has to drive in the left hand lane only but if you wish to drive on the wrong side of the road and keep adding silly things to this thread then down to you, we are NOT talking about "No access" or "Except for" only you are, plese read the original question!You are mis-interpreting peoples answers are you doing this on purpose?
Reply ID 58980
quote:Ok let's make it simple. In this context, and if the traffic is queueing, the right hand lane approaching the roundabout before the viaduct on Hertingfordbury Road, is not "the wrong lane" by any definition given in the Highway Code or any other document and no evidence of any kind points to any other conclusion. The belief otherwise, is just that;-a belief. As for not stating drive on the left, I suggest you check your own posts, or would like me to copy and paste them?
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Shunt you are so wrong I have never said do not overtake so as everyone has to drive in the left hand lane only but if you wish to drive on the wrong side of the road and keep adding silly things to this thread then down to you, we are NOT talking about "No access" or "Except for" only you are, plese read the original question!You are mis-interpreting peoples answers are you doing this on purpose?
Reply ID 58981
Hi Shunt I have never said this is the wrong neither has any one else, this lane is the correct lane for overtaking, now can we get back to people overtaking a queue on the left, are or are they not queue jumpers?
Reply ID 58982
quote:No. Queuing in single file is the error.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Shunt I have never said this is the wrong neither has any one else, this lane is the correct lane for overtaking, now can we get back to people overtaking a queue on the left, are or are they not queue jumpers?
Reply ID 58983
quote:Night Owl - you answer your own question. The people overtaking "in the correct lane for overtaking" are . . . . (wait for it) . . .OVERTAKERS!!
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Shunt I have never said this is the wrong neither has any one else, this lane is the correct lane for overtaking, now can we get back to people overtaking a queue on the left, are or are they not queue jumpers?
Reply ID 58987
Ok when is an overtaker not an overtaker? When he is a queue jumper! To overtake you must have somewhere to overtake to I.E. A space on the left side of the road ahead, so when there is a queue nose to tail where are you overtaking to?
Reply ID 58988
quote:I can't help but feel it is you Night Owl who has mis-interpreted this whole thread. Where has overtaking and queue jumping come into it? Shunt has explained the concept exceptionally clearly on several occasions. The road layout is designed for double file queuing. That people choose the longest queue on the left does not make it wrong for people to choose the shorter queue on the right. This is not overtaking or queue jumping. Shall we all just 'zip it' now?.........alternately........at the point of the lane drop...........vigilante lorry drivers permitting.... [8D]
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Shunt you are so wrong I have never said do not overtake so as everyone has to drive in the left hand lane only but if you wish to drive on the wrong side of the road and keep adding silly things to this thread then down to you, we are NOT talking about "No access" or "Except for" only you are, plese read the original question!You are mis-interpreting peoples answers are you doing this on purpose?
Reply ID 58989
quote:If the queue is nose to tail, there's another error. There should be at least one vehicle length ahead of each. Admittedly it doesn't often happen. Secondly, your example only applies in two lane carriageways, and when the traffic is not in queues. At all other times, the advice is that one should return to the left-hand lane as soon as it is safe and clear to do so. I do agree that this is not overtaking. It is queueing side by side and filling the allocated space to do so.
Originally posted by night owl
Ok when is an overtaker not an overtaker? When he is a queue jumper! To overtake you must have somewhere to overtake to I.E. A space on the left side of the road ahead, so when there is a queue nose to tail where are you overtaking to?
Reply ID 58993
quote:Thank's Richie. Now, I must get back to those poor Jahovah's Witnesses I invited in for tea and debate several days ago. The were starting to sob when I left them and they must have run out of biscuits by now.[:D]
Originally posted by Richiequote:I can't help but feel it is you Night Owl who has mis-interpreted this whole thread. Where has overtaking and queue jumping come into it? Shunt has explained the concept exceptionally clearly on several occasions. The road layout is designed for double file queuing. That people choose the longest queue on the left does not make it wrong for people to choose the shorter queue on the right. This is not overtaking or queue jumping. Shall we all just 'zip it' now?.........alternately........at the point of the lane drop...........vigilante lorry drivers permitting.... [8D]
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Shunt you are so wrong I have never said do not overtake so as everyone has to drive in the left hand lane only but if you wish to drive on the wrong side of the road and keep adding silly things to this thread then down to you, we are NOT talking about "No access" or "Except for" only you are, plese read the original question!You are mis-interpreting peoples answers are you doing this on purpose?
Reply ID 59000
Hi Richie like the others please read the original question and the part about why do lorrys straddle the white line and then follow the thread!
quote:
Originally posted by Richiequote:I can't help but feel it is you Night Owl who has mis-interpreted this whole thread. Where has overtaking and queue jumping come into it? Shunt has explained the concept exceptionally clearly on several occasions. The road layout is designed for double file queuing. That people choose the longest queue on the left does not make it wrong for people to choose the shorter queue on the right. This is not overtaking or queue jumping. Shall we all just 'zip it' now?.........alternately........at the point of the lane drop...........vigilante lorry drivers permitting.... [8D]
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Shunt you are so wrong I have never said do not overtake so as everyone has to drive in the left hand lane only but if you wish to drive on the wrong side of the road and keep adding silly things to this thread then down to you, we are NOT talking about "No access" or "Except for" only you are, plese read the original question!You are mis-interpreting peoples answers are you doing this on purpose?
Reply ID 59001
quote:Hi Night owl. I think you'll find I posed the original question. [:D]
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Richie like the others please read the original question and the part about why do lorrys straddle the white line and then follow the thread!
Reply ID 59002
[:D][:D][:D]
Reply ID 59003
Hi Richie I sure do know that you started this post and I have been trying to explain when and where and why large vehicles straddle the white line, which you think is rude and yes it is rude, it is about as rude as queue jumping and I am not on about any local road in Hertford as there seems to be some mix up between rush hour times where there is a volume of traffic and other times when there is say about 10 cars making a queue and some queue jumper flying down the outside lane and cutting someone up, I have been talking about other roads in the U.K. where this is more of a common occurence and it is not just lorrys doing this as it seems to be catching on and now I am now seeing car drivers doing this.
quote:
Originally posted by Richiequote:Hi Night owl. I think you'll find I posed the original question. [:D]
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Richie like the others please read the original question and the part about why do lorrys straddle the white line and then follow the thread!
Reply ID 59004
I'm one of those sad people who will always dutifully queue while cars whiz by and pull in way ahead [}:)] AND am, therefore, usually grateful to any lorry driver who decides to straddle the lanes. Ner
Reply ID 59005
quote:Presumably if you are in front of the lorry. If you are behind it the lorry is increasing your wait and potentially putting you, or someone further back in danger. To wait in the left hand lane is entirely your perogative. Ain't nothing wrong with that.
Originally posted by Millie
I'm one of those sad people who will always dutifully queue while cars whiz by and pull in way ahead [}:)] AND am, therefore, usually grateful to any lorry driver who decides to straddle the lanes. Ner
Reply ID 59006
Is it not a moment for people to chill out a bit? Two lanes, three lanes, one lane, who really cares? We will all get there in the end.
Reply ID 59007
quote:yes I was trying to input a little humour into things given how protracted the argument had become [:o)]
Originally posted by James007
Is it not a moment for people to chill out a bit? Two lanes, three lanes, one lane, who really cares? We will all get there in the end.
Reply ID 59008
quote:Actually we weren't discussing any of those things or other UK roads, as that would be off-topic. This is a Hertford forum and we were discussing a Hertford location. "Cutting people up" is a highly dangerous practice, but again nothing to do with the queue being discussed. Likewise you have no way of telling whether someone using the right hand lane intends to "cut people up" or is just using the right hand lane as it should be. If there is a queue, it isn't possible to cut anyone up anyway. That would require there to be moving traffic. Cutting someone up can be defined by deliberately obstructing another road user's progress in order to favour your own. A fair description of what you are doing. I agree that it is spreading, as so many bad habits do, which is why "use both lanes" signs have had to be introduced, when before they were never needed. Who do you think they are directed at? Yep, it's you!
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Richie I sure do know that you started this post and I have been trying to explain when and where and why large vehicles straddle the white line, which you think is rude and yes it is rude, it is about as rude as queue jumping and I am not on about any local road in Hertford as there seems to be some mix up between rush hour times where there is a volume of traffic and other times when there is say about 10 cars making a queue and some queue jumper flying down the outside lane and cutting someone up, I have been talking about other roads in the U.K. where this is more of a common occurence and it is not just lorrys doing this as it seems to be catching on and now I am now seeing car drivers doing this.quote:
Originally posted by Richiequote:Hi Night owl. I think you'll find I posed the original question. [:D]
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Richie like the others please read the original question and the part about why do lorrys straddle the white line and then follow the thread!
Reply ID 59009
quote:Amen to that
Originally posted by shuntquote:Actually we weren't discussing any of those things or other UK roads, as that would be off-topic. This is a Hertford forum and we were discussing a Hertford location. "Cutting people up" is a highly dangerous practice, but again nothing to do with the queue being discussed. Likewise you have no way of telling whether someone using the right hand lane intends to "cut people up" or is just using the right hand lane as it should be. If there is a queue, it isn't possible to cut anyone up anyway. That would require there to be moving traffic. Cutting someone up can be defined by deliberately obstructing another road user's progress in order to favour your own. A fair description of what you are doing. I agree that it is spreading, as so many bad habits do, which is why "use both lanes" signs have had to be introduced, when before they were never needed. Who do you think they are directed at? Yep, it's you!
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Richie I sure do know that you started this post and I have been trying to explain when and where and why large vehicles straddle the white line, which you think is rude and yes it is rude, it is about as rude as queue jumping and I am not on about any local road in Hertford as there seems to be some mix up between rush hour times where there is a volume of traffic and other times when there is say about 10 cars making a queue and some queue jumper flying down the outside lane and cutting someone up, I have been talking about other roads in the U.K. where this is more of a common occurence and it is not just lorrys doing this as it seems to be catching on and now I am now seeing car drivers doing this.quote:
Originally posted by Richiequote:Hi Night owl. I think you'll find I posed the original question. [:D]
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Richie like the others please read the original question and the part about why do lorrys straddle the white line and then follow the thread!
Reply ID 59016
Hi Shunt interpret it as you want, me I am off now on one of my long distance jaunts where the roads are clear and people are polite, so when any of you are sitting in the rush hour jam please think of me as I will be driving along with not much traffic and no road rage and I will be driving on the wrong side of the road and shunt this does not mean I am driving into oncoming traffic. Ho ho ho. T.T.F.N. Back late Sunday.
Reply ID 59281
I love road debates so here is my two pence! The point in question was not designed to keep traffic off the Hertingfordbury roundabout, it was simply a bottle neck needed to squeeze a 40 year old bypass under an 80 year old bridge. As for right of way at the bottle neck, its quite clear. The road is NOT marked as a lane merge (an upside down Y), the road markings clearly indicate the need for the right lane to move over into the left, and no markings for the left to move to the right. Anyone who has passed a driving test should know that if you change lanes, you have to give way to the lane of traffic you are entering, so by definition, the right lane must give way to the left at the point of contention. It is marked to move over into the left. Therefore, anyone trying to push in from right lane to left is breaking the legal and moral queueing system. It is NOT a signed merge. It is when people ignore the give way structure that trouble starts. In heavy traffic, that is always caused by the right laners who do not want to give way.
Reply ID 59287
Two pence well spent
Reply ID 59291
quote:It does not need to be signed as you suggest (or at least, it shouldn't need signing). There is a difference in the acceptable protocol made by the speed of the traffic at all such intersections. It is the rigid application of the appropriate action in moving traffic (which you have correctly stated), in queueing traffic, which causes the problem. The proceedure should be quite different, but there are many who do not adapt sufficiently to conditions. You are correct that the viaduct creates a bottleneck. It would have been possible, if expensive to remove this bottleneck, but it serves a purpose in limiting traffic at the next junction and so on. Dual carriageways with low speed limits in towns are not designed to enable fast travel, as motorways are. The are specifically to control the length of queues between junctions and bottlenecks and prevent those junctions becoming choked by traffic, which if in single file would extend twice as far. If that were not the case, there would be little point in continuing any dual carriageway beyong the start of the lower speed limit. The upside down Y sign you described is only used on national speed limit roads and when the traffic merges between junctions or roundabouts, for all the above reasons. However, due to the large number of people who do not operate the system properly, a new sign "Merge in turn" has had to be added in many places. This is due to a rapidly emerging tendency to think that anything which is not signed, doesn't exsist. Common-sense is dying.[V]
Originally posted by Dude
I love road debates so here is my two pence! The point in question was not designed to keep traffic off the Hertingfordbury roundabout, it was simply a bottle neck needed to squeeze a 40 year old bypass under an 80 year old bridge. As for right of way at the bottle neck, its quite clear. The road is NOT marked as a lane merge (an upside down Y), the road markings clearly indicate the need for the right lane to move over into the left, and no markings for the left to move to the right. Anyone who has passed a driving test should know that if you change lanes, you have to give way to the lane of traffic you are entering, so by definition, the right lane must give way to the left at the point of contention. It is marked to move over into the left. Therefore, anyone trying to push in from right lane to left is breaking the legal and moral queueing system. It is NOT a signed merge. It is when people ignore the give way structure that trouble starts. In heavy traffic, that is always caused by the right laners who do not want to give way.
Reply ID 59298
Actually I think thats wrong. When a lane merges into your lane, you're legally obliged via the highway code to give way.
Reply ID 59299
quote:Where no specific instuction is given, both are, otherwise known as merging.[:)] In moving traffic, it should be anticipated and the manouveur completed in good time, whereas in stationary traffic, it should be one to one at the front of the queues.
Originally posted by codek2
Actually I think thats wrong. When a lane merges into your lane, you're legally obliged via the highway code to give way.
Reply ID 59364
Actually the upside down Y does not mean "Merge in Turn" it is a warning sign! http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/Signsandmarkings/index.htm?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=96500&Rendition=Web It is either traffic merging from the left/right or it is "end of dual carriageway"
Reply ID 59365
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070308 134 You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.
Reply ID 59370
quote:Yep. That's about it. I don't have a copy at hand to quote from and I thank you for bothering to seek it out. A certain amount of on the spot judgement is required as to which condition is in effect at the time, when deciding whether to merge in advance, or in turn.
Originally posted by jez_p
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070308 134 You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.
Reply ID 59380
quote:Exactly. And as most of the people who are arguing that you're not meant to merge at the point of convergence are referring to that junction at times when the traffic is almost stationary, then
Originally posted by jez_p
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070308 134 You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.
quote:
Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed.
Reply ID 59389
quote:167 DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road where the road narrows when approaching a school crossing patrol between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works when you would force another road user to swerve or slow down
Originally posted by jez_p
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070308 134 You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.
Reply ID 59404
Thank you Dude, Frenchie, Codek2, Jezz-p, and very well done Buzz as that is the rule I have been waiting for but it is a bit of a shame that some people have had to look these things up in the highway code when they should already know this,so to all queue jumpers DO NOT COME INTO CONFLICT WITH OTHER ROAD USERS. But if people were more polite in their driving then the roads would be a lot safer and it is not a race to get from A to B if you have to drive fast to get to work its because you are late then try leaving earlier.So safe driving to you all.
Reply ID 59408
quote:I don't think anyone would argue that to force another road user to swerve or slow down would be wrong in any situation. As for overtaking where the road narrows, that would also be true, but queueing two abreast ahead of such a feature is fine. As I have said before, anticipation and advance positioning is the key. It is perfectly ok to chose either lane. A sudden lane change, or blocking a merge is not ok. As buzz points out, "conflict" is to be avoided. Blocking is deliberate and pre-meditated conflict.
Originally posted by buzzquote:167 DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road where the road narrows when approaching a school crossing patrol between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works when you would force another road user to swerve or slow down
Originally posted by jez_p
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070308 134 You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.
Reply ID 59409
quote:Wrong. 167 refers to single lane roads. – approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road – This refers specifically to when there is no overtaking lane. This is to prevent idiots entering the opposite lane while trying to jump the queue. – where the road narrows – This is referring to when a single lane road becomes so narrow that it is little wider than a single lane in either direction. An example of this is St Mary's Lane approaching Coles Green Way coming from Hertingtingfordbury. NOT when a dual carriageway becomes a single lane, which 134 is written for. – between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop – again, referring to single lane traffic. – where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works & – when you would force another road user to swerve or slow down – Again this refers specifically to when there is no overtaking lane. This is to prevent idiots entering the opposite lane while trying to jump the queue.
Originally posted by buzzquote:167 DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road where the road narrows when approaching a school crossing patrol between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works when you would force another road user to swerve or slow down
Originally posted by jez_p
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070308 134 You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.
Reply ID 59414
Where specifically does s.167 refer to single lane roads?
Reply ID 59415
quote:S.167 says 'Do not OVERTAKE where you might come into conflict with other road users'
Originally posted by shuntquote:I don't think anyone would argue that to force another road user to swerve or slow down would be wrong in any situation. As for overtaking where the road narrows, that would also be true, but queueing two abreast ahead of such a feature is fine. As I have said before, anticipation and advance positioning is the key. It is perfectly ok to chose either lane. A sudden lane change, or blocking a merge is not ok. As buzz points out, "conflict" is to be avoided. Blocking is deliberate and pre-meditated conflict.
Originally posted by buzzquote:167 DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road where the road narrows when approaching a school crossing patrol between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works when you would force another road user to swerve or slow down
Originally posted by jez_p
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070308 134 You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.
Reply ID 59429
I think it may not be helpful to seek definitive highway code "rules". The code is, in the main, an advisory document and does not negate the need for common sense, adaptability to road conditions and good attitude. I'd also say that S167 is intended to apply to two lane traffic. That is not to say some of it does not apply to other situations too. The advice given elsewhere is clear for two lane queueing, in that one to one merging is "recommended" when safe to do so. It is important that any one section is taken in context with the rest of the code. Chopped into isolated lumps, it's intent is lost.
Reply ID 59452
quote:Whilst I agree that the Highway Code is mainly an advisory document, non-compliance with those rules can be used as supporting evidence in,say, a prosecution for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.
Originally posted by shunt
I think it may not be helpful to seek definitive highway code "rules". The code is, in the main, an advisory document and does not negate the need for common sense, adaptability to road conditions and good attitude. I'd also say that S167 is intended to apply to two lane traffic. That is not to say some of it does not apply to other situations too. The advice given elsewhere is clear for two lane queueing, in that one to one merging is "recommended" when safe to do so. It is important that any one section is taken in context with the rest of the code. Chopped into isolated lumps, it's intent is lost.
Reply ID 59456
quote:Indeed they can, but once again, that would depend on other behaviour and whether a manouver was judged to be executed safely and taking conditions into account. How one does something can make a big difference to it's legality. Beligerance, obstructiveness or aggression during an otherwise legal manouver, can cause it to become "without due consideration". Blocking , except for the reason you correctly identified earlier, always falls into this catagory, whereas using the outside lane to queue at this point, wouldn't be considered as such, without some other factor or behaviour being observed.
Originally posted by buzzquote:Whilst I agree that the Highway Code is mainly an advisory document, non-compliance with those rules can be used as supporting evidence in,say, a prosecution for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.
Originally posted by shunt
I think it may not be helpful to seek definitive highway code "rules". The code is, in the main, an advisory document and does not negate the need for common sense, adaptability to road conditions and good attitude. I'd also say that S167 is intended to apply to two lane traffic. That is not to say some of it does not apply to other situations too. The advice given elsewhere is clear for two lane queueing, in that one to one merging is "recommended" when safe to do so. It is important that any one section is taken in context with the rest of the code. Chopped into isolated lumps, it's intent is lost.
Reply ID 59493
Hi Shunt do you think that queue jumpers are aggressive and belligerent and ignorant and rude? If some one was on their driving test and queue jumped do you think they would pass their test?
quote:
Originally posted by shuntquote:Indeed they can, but once again, that would depend on other behaviour and whether a manouver was judged to be executed safely and taking conditions into account. How one does something can make a big difference to it's legality. Beligerance, obstructiveness or aggression during an otherwise legal manouver, can cause it to become "without due consideration". Blocking , except for the reason you correctly identified earlier, always falls into this catagory, whereas using the outside lane to queue at this point, wouldn't be considered as such, without some other factor or behaviour being observed.
Originally posted by buzzquote:Whilst I agree that the Highway Code is mainly an advisory document, non-compliance with those rules can be used as supporting evidence in,say, a prosecution for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.
Originally posted by shunt
I think it may not be helpful to seek definitive highway code "rules". The code is, in the main, an advisory document and does not negate the need for common sense, adaptability to road conditions and good attitude. I'd also say that S167 is intended to apply to two lane traffic. That is not to say some of it does not apply to other situations too. The advice given elsewhere is clear for two lane queueing, in that one to one merging is "recommended" when safe to do so. It is important that any one section is taken in context with the rest of the code. Chopped into isolated lumps, it's intent is lost.
Reply ID 59505
quote:You keep using the term "queue jumpers". Though you think this makes your case, it is not what is being discussed here. We were discussing whether it is correct to use both lanes to queue and merge one to one, or not. That is not queue jumping, if the traffic is not moving at any speed, but the recommend procedure. The most obvious example of queue jumping mentioned so far is blocking, either by refusing to allow merging, or straddling a lane. That is clearly someone obstructing other road users in order to ensure they reach the gap first. You would not fail a test for choosing the right lane to queue in and then merging at the front, though you may be marked down if it were an LGV or LPV test. You would fail on lane discipline if you straddled lanes, or obstructed another driver attempting to merge, in, or on, any vehicle.
Originally posted by night owl
Hi Shunt do you think that queue jumpers are aggressive and belligerent and ignorant and rude? If some one was on their driving test and queue jumped do you think they would pass their test?quote:
Originally posted by shuntquote:Indeed they can, but once again, that would depend on other behaviour and whether a manouver was judged to be executed safely and taking conditions into account. How one does something can make a big difference to it's legality. Beligerance, obstructiveness or aggression during an otherwise legal manouver, can cause it to become "without due consideration". Blocking , except for the reason you correctly identified earlier, always falls into this catagory, whereas using the outside lane to queue at this point, wouldn't be considered as such, without some other factor or behaviour being observed.
Originally posted by buzzquote:Whilst I agree that the Highway Code is mainly an advisory document, non-compliance with those rules can be used as supporting evidence in,say, a prosecution for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.
Originally posted by shunt
I think it may not be helpful to seek definitive highway code "rules". The code is, in the main, an advisory document and does not negate the need for common sense, adaptability to road conditions and good attitude. I'd also say that S167 is intended to apply to two lane traffic. That is not to say some of it does not apply to other situations too. The advice given elsewhere is clear for two lane queueing, in that one to one merging is "recommended" when safe to do so. It is important that any one section is taken in context with the rest of the code. Chopped into isolated lumps, it's intent is lost.
Reply ID 59509
[img]http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/schlafen/sleeping-smiley-009.gif[/img]
Reply ID 59510
Can't believe this thread is soooo popular [|)] [|)] [|)]
Reply ID 59512
Being an insomniac, I've found it quite useful. [:)]
Reply ID 59514
![http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/schlafen/sleeping-smiley-009.gif[/img] size="4">](http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/schlafen/sleeping-smiley-009.gif[/img]<font){kind=link}