Topic ID 4449
Golly they've now put up horrid metal grids where the windows were, this lovely old pub as was is looking like something out of the Bronx.... what a sad end to Justin's vision... I want to give it a cuddle, the poor old building[:(]
Reply ID 63894
Is it a listed building?
Reply ID 63900
Believe so
Reply ID 63904
Wouldn't they need Listed Building Consent before they could put these up? [img]../images/forum/hillside_grating1.jpg[/img] [img]../images/forum/hillside_grating2.jpg[/img] [img]../images/forum/hillside_grating3.jpg[/img]
Reply ID 63910
I think it looks dreadful......what a sad old building
Reply ID 63919
At least steps have been taken to secure the property. It would look considerably worse vandalised and burned out.
Reply ID 63922
The Hillside has been resurrected by the original owner Barry in Wheathampstead (Sorry) Going there for dinner on Friday and will report back soon
Reply ID 63923
quote:Some would argue it HAS been vandalised.
Originally posted by shunt
At least steps have been taken to secure the property. It would look considerably worse vandalised and burned out.
Reply ID 63929
Up to fairly recently some lad was "pub sitting" in the venue, it had notices and you could see him in, to prevent this vandalism. I think it now makes it a magnet for vandalism now.. horrid
Reply ID 63930
Great shame about the demise of the Hillside.[:(] Nothing else matches it for the gastro pub experience around Hertford.
Reply ID 63932
What happened there? I had no idea, I thought it was still a success
Reply ID 63934
quote:It closed nearly a year ago. Spice Inns went into administration. http://www.hertford.net/yoursay/topic.php?id=1158&whichpage=6
Originally posted by throwback
What happened there? I had no idea, I thought it was still a success
Reply ID 63935
That's me, on the ball as usual!!
Reply ID 63936
quote:I had heard that Justin and Jurga looked at reopening the Hillside but there are few issues with the building (particularly the floor) and that they are now looking at opening a place in Bishops Stortford.. Any truth in this?
Originally posted by throwback
What happened there? I had no idea, I thought it was still a success
Reply ID 63938
If there is any truth in your rumours Firedup, I should think looking at the hillside now, its more than the floors that need looking at!
Reply ID 63939
It wonder if the demise of the Hillside might be part of the knock on effect of the smoking ban. Whereas smoking pubs have lost trade because of some smokers staying away, maybe the effect of anti-smokers frequenting everywhere destroyed the exclusivity of venues like the Hillside, and just as a general downturn in trade hit too. Having said that, the Hillside concentrated very strongly on it's food trade, rather than being a pub, so it shouldn't have made much difference. It seemed a very short time between Spice Inns looking like an expanding chain and total closure of both their local venues. It'll be a brave soul who takes it on now, particularly since Spice appeared to have hit on a popular formula and yet still failed.
Reply ID 63942
quote:Let us know what it is like as have driven past a few times and it does have same look and feel of the Hillside in Hertford.
Originally posted by Firedupinside
The Hillside has been resurrected by the original owner Barry in Wheathampstead (Sorry) Going there for dinner on Friday and will report back soon
Reply ID 63955
The smoking ban is being blamed for lots but judging by the huge numbers queueing outside various drinking holes in and around Hertford and the bouncers on the doors, clientele spending money is not a problem! I think the credit crunch was just starting to bite about a year ago and by September/October the first banks went bust. This is probably why trade went down... but someone on the Forum is bound to prove me wrong I guess.
Reply ID 63956
quote:http://www.punchpubs.co.uk/Punch/Punch%20Pubs/Hidden/PropertyVacancyDetails?pid=p1028 The College Arms is on the same Punch website too.
Originally posted by Sallyquote:Let us know what it is like as have driven past a few times and it does have same look and feel of the Hillside in Hertford.
Originally posted by Firedupinside
The Hillside has been resurrected by the original owner Barry in Wheathampstead (Sorry) Going there for dinner on Friday and will report back soon
Reply ID 63968
"The property is close to a local business park offering potential for food during the day and evening" Surely Punch Pubs are not referring the the commercial units at the end of Chambers Street?
Reply ID 63984
Yes, those crazy BM riders. Sounds like they want to turn it into a transport cafe!
Reply ID 63985
quote:More likley the business units in Hartham Lane I would suspect? The back gate leads into Hartham car park from where it's but a short walk across to the Hillside.
Originally posted by James007
"The property is close to a local business park offering potential for food during the day and evening" Surely Punch Pubs are not referring the the commercial units at the end of Chambers Street?
Reply ID 63993
Is it really reopening? I use to love going to the Hillside and have missed it since it shut. Was the best place to eat in Town without a doubt. I hope they do reopen.
Reply ID 63995
quote:I think you may have mis-read an earlier post. It is not re-opening.
Originally posted by Bubbaoshea
Is it really reopening? I use to love going to the Hillside and have missed it since it shut. Was the best place to eat in Town without a doubt. I hope they do reopen.
Reply ID 63997
quote:No, it's not true.
Originally posted by Firedupinside
I had heard that Justin and Jurga... are now looking at opening a place in Bishops Stortford.. Any truth in this?
Reply ID 63998
Doh! Got all excited there for a moment.
Reply ID 64001
quote:The Hillside must have failed due to mismanagement. Judging by the number of eateries in Hertford that are flourishing, you have to be pretty poor at running a business to allow an established gastro pub with a reputation as one of the very best places to eat in the local area and a great chef, go to ruin in affluent Hertford. How many local pubs and eateries have failed due to the smoking ban? Old Cross Tavern? White horse? Wetherspoons? Salisbury? Baroosh?
Originally posted by shunt
It wonder if the demise of the Hillside might be part of the knock on effect of the smoking ban. Whereas smoking pubs have lost trade because of some smokers staying away, maybe the effect of anti-smokers frequenting everywhere destroyed the exclusivity of venues like the Hillside, and just as a general downturn in trade hit too. Having said that, the Hillside concentrated very strongly on it's food trade, rather than being a pub, so it shouldn't have made much difference. It seemed a very short time between Spice Inns looking like an expanding chain and total closure of both their local venues. It'll be a brave soul who takes it on now, particularly since Spice appeared to have hit on a popular formula and yet still failed.
Reply ID 64003
I think the model was right but the size of the place didnt allow for the amount of covers that Lussmans/Brass Gerard/Ask etc have. I seem to remember it mentioned that they had to fill the double sittings consistently to make the no's add up. Also, I hardly went there due to the fact it was just that little bit to far out of town for me. The 10 min walk from Baroosh etc meant we wud drop into Lussmans instead.
Reply ID 64013
quote:None of those had the niche market advantage of being one of only two non-smoking venues before the smoking ban. Licenced trade is generally down since the ban, but only a percentage have been so badly effected to lead to closure. Non-smoking venues were hit much harder by sudden and massive competion from every other hostelry in their area. Also, Hillside is a Punch house. They don't leave much, if any profit for their tenants.
Originally posted by 2929paulquote:The Hillside must have failed due to mismanagement. Judging by the number of eateries in Hertford that are flourishing, you have to be pretty poor at running a business to allow an established gastro pub with a reputation as one of the very best places to eat in the local area and a great chef, go to ruin in affluent Hertford. How many local pubs and eateries have failed due to the smoking ban? Old Cross Tavern? White horse? Wetherspoons? Salisbury? Baroosh?
Originally posted by shunt
It wonder if the demise of the Hillside might be part of the knock on effect of the smoking ban. Whereas smoking pubs have lost trade because of some smokers staying away, maybe the effect of anti-smokers frequenting everywhere destroyed the exclusivity of venues like the Hillside, and just as a general downturn in trade hit too. Having said that, the Hillside concentrated very strongly on it's food trade, rather than being a pub, so it shouldn't have made much difference. It seemed a very short time between Spice Inns looking like an expanding chain and total closure of both their local venues. It'll be a brave soul who takes it on now, particularly since Spice appeared to have hit on a popular formula and yet still failed.
Reply ID 64017
The website posted by Rooster now shows Freehold Available. Rang them up to see what they were asking. Rather than the usual Punch nonsense of £1million (all their pubs used to start out at this default price - unless worth more of course), was quoted £300k. As it's a business with accommodation, you have to pay VAT at 15% on 90% of the purchase price, not forgetting stamp duty. If memory serves, the inclusion of VAT can get you into the next stamp duty threshold. Academic admittedly but rather pernicious all the same. If they get their cash, I doubt they would worry whether it goes for development or remains as a pub. No mention of the PubCo favourite of putting a restrictive covenant on it saying once sold it can never sell alcohol again. There again, they only have the Old Barge to protect and it's far enough away.
Reply ID 64038
Yes, but the 'Old Barge' is not doing too well, they cream too much of the profits off. I still think the Barge is a very good pub especially on quiz evenings!!!!!
Reply ID 64041
Publandlord has my sympathies there. The two big pub companies have certainly not covered themselves in anything other than manure recently. The Barge may get to choose from a better range of beers than the White Horse, but I suspect they pay through the nose and pay a much higher rent for the privilege. That said, it's still an excellent and well run pub and I wish them all the very best.
Reply ID 64065
quote:Really.
Originally posted by furrybunny
Yes, but the 'Old Barge' is not doing too well, they cream too much of the profits off. I still think the Barge is a very good pub especially on quiz evenings!!!!!
Reply ID 64093
a source close to the property has said viewings have taken place and so far people who are interested want it as a nursery, single dwelling, 4/5 houses, pub, restaurant. very exciting to see what it will become.
Reply ID 64098
Thats interesting Teddylad.. Theres a nursery right opposite in Hartham and there isn't that much parking behind the Hillside and I cannot see how they could allow parents to stop off opposite a really difficult junction used by homeowners and visitors to Hartham Common and a really big day nursery! As for houses, you can see the nightmare that is Porthill, some of the terraces just up from the Hillside are already having trouble parking on the pavement and I cannot see how this could work.. I think its a sad end to a really lovely pub dwelling.. lets hope somebody wants to lavish proper love on it... [V]
Reply ID 64105
quote:I couldn't agree more. It was just somewhere really special to go that wasn't a chain. I don't have anything against chains per se, but it's always good to have an alternative. Such a shame that restaurants seem to suck up money and not produce much profit - it would be a brave person willing to take on The Hillside now I think.
Originally posted by Drama Queen
I think its a sad end to a really lovely pub dwelling.. lets hope somebody wants to lavish proper love on it... [V]
Reply ID 64108
If I had the cash I would re opening it as the Hillside, not really change much from the previous concept. Alas, I don't have the cash.
Reply ID 64109
quote:I thought it was a chain , Spice Inns ?
It was just somewhere really special to go that wasn't a chain
Reply ID 64110
quote:There was only one Hillside. Spice Inns ran a handful of other restaurants but they didn't use the same name or menu.
Originally posted by Donostiaquote:I thought it was a chain , Spice Inns ?
It was just somewhere really special to go that wasn't a chain
Reply ID 64237
You are right, it was part of Spice inns, the same people who also had the College Arms in Hertford Heath. Sadly they over developed this site and as such is on the Punch wbsite for a silly amount of money.
Reply ID 65330
What's the scoop then folks? N'th hand I'd heard that the 'pub' had won then got gazumped by the 'nursery'. As DQ noted, there's already one of these over the road. In passing, a big round of applause to the Barge who have managed to throw off the shackles of serfdom and become free of tie. Those of us who are heading for bankruptcy (just kidding) salute you.....
Reply ID 65487
quote:Good point. It was doing well, even with high prices and double sittings. You can't max out a small venue any better than it was. Personally I think it would be better going back to the Reindeer but becoming a real ale pub to boot. But even then, I think it would take a brave person to invest.
Originally posted by shunt
It'll be a brave soul who takes it on now, particularly since Spice appeared to have hit on a popular formula and yet still failed.
Reply ID 65500
I just find the sight of it so sad.. It looks unloved.. and yet 2 years ago was thriving.. Its a shame that all the decent places have gone.. but I guess we'll have to see what happens to the premises now. I don't like the idea of the Nursery. At least in hartham the parents can drive in and park up off the busiest main road going.. I hope its not true and the Hillside becomes a nursery....
Reply ID 65504
i have a little teddylad and something other than the corporate/plastic fantastic busy bees would be great, i know there is independent tiny toes, but more options are nice. the hillside could no way sustain itself as a restaurant but i think it would make a great home, although on the main road might not be to everyone's liking, but big back yard.
Reply ID 65510
Someone can tell me if I'm wrong (I'm sure they will) but won't a nursery have to apply for chage of use, which will mean proving that the Hillside canot be run as a viable pub/restaurant business ? (which it cearly can).
Reply ID 65514
I have seen the internal layout of the building and it is not pretty. It wouldn't make a great creche or kiddies day centre, even with a revamp. I am sure it is Grade 2* listed due to the property abutting the Quaker burial ground. For those who don't know, the property was originally two cottages and was converted into a tavern early in the last century. The picture of the horse and dray at the bottom outside the property is one of my favourites from the archives. @publandlord - I believe that it will require change of use from A3/4 as a creche/day nursery falls under the same use class as medical/library/hall type buildings (D1).
Reply ID 65520
quote:Clearly it can't. It's been empty for well over a year now. usually the criteria to get change of use is that it has to be actively marketed with no interest for 6 months.
Originally posted by publandlord
Someone can tell me if I'm wrong (I'm sure they will) but won't a nursery have to apply for chage of use, which will mean proving that the Hillside canot be run as a viable pub/restaurant business ? (which it cearly can).
Reply ID 65522
There has been plenty of interest.
quote:
Originally posted by codek2
Clearly it can't. It's been empty for well over a year now. usually the criteria to get change of use is that it has to be actively marketed with no interest for 6 months.
Reply ID 65523
interest is the wrong word; 6 months and no one taking it on is enough to get change of use. in fact, it can be enough to get permission to take it residential! Clearly it would be better if it re-opened as a pub/restaurant tho.
Reply ID 65524
Trying to rent it at 40k per annum is one sure fire way of getting zero interest.
Reply ID 65560
I think the problem was the people who bought the Hillside were not as good as making it work as Justin was... He clearly had a knack, not everybody can run a pub.. just take a look around the UK for that, but it was a busy restaurant and the key was the excellent cuisine, atmosphere and superior service. People came from miles around. I am sorry there are a lot of Nurseries in town and Montesorries and such like and I think it would be nice if an independent restauranteur could ressurect it... The time is difficult as the banks aren't keen to offer loans, but there must be another Justin out there... please ....
Reply ID 65565
quote:Very kind words, drama queen. We did try to take the hillside on again when we returned from spain, but we could not do a deal with punch, they kept moving the goalposts. the building has serious issues and needs big money spent on it, before you begin. some time soon we will be opening something similar elsewhere. Thanks
Originally posted by Drama Queen
I think the problem was the people who bought the Hillside were not as good as making it work as Justin was... He clearly had a knack, not everybody can run a pub.. just take a look around the UK for that, but it was a busy restaurant and the key was the excellent cuisine, atmosphere and superior service. People came from miles around. I am sorry there are a lot of Nurseries in town and Montesorries and such like and I think it would be nice if an independent restauranteur could ressurect it... The time is difficult as the banks aren't keen to offer loans, but there must be another Justin out there... please ....
Reply ID 65567
Justin: out of interest, how close to Hertford is 'elsewhere'??
Reply ID 66566
quote:about an hour, bury st edmunds http://www.peaporridge.co.uk
Originally posted by thefair1973
Justin: out of interest, how close to Hertford is 'elsewhere'??
Reply ID 66567
Good Luck!! Menu sounds yummy!!
Reply ID 66581
My words Justin were as I found your restaurant and it was a pleasure. I always had a good time in there and had the most excellent cuisine and service whether I popped in on Sunday lunch or was taken to an excellent meal as a thank you by a friend. I was near Bury St Eds only at the weekend, would love to know when you get that started and maybe put a face to the unmarked Drama Queen moniker [:D] xxx
Reply ID 66923
Flogged to an Englishman (their words not mine when I asked if the Indian Restauranter was perhaps the winning bidder) from Ware. To remain a Pub ..... latest rumour. Any advance?
Reply ID 69223
Does anyone know anything about the future of this sad-looking place? A real shame now that it's been empty for over a year. I did see some of the internal lights on over the weekend but no other signs of activity unfortunately.
Reply ID 76510
Has anyone been to the Wheathamstead Hillside? Any good?
Reply ID 76511
We have been a couple of times and the food was good but no where near as fantastic as the food served by Justin in his new restaurant 'Pea Porridge' in Bury St Edmunds! Well worth the journey if you are missing the culinary delights that Justin and Jurga served up at the Hillside! They are now on holiday for 2 weeks but I guarantee they will be pleased to see the old Hillside faithful if you make a trip to Bury!
Reply ID 90757
Okay so perhaps I may get the odd comment stating that this is not linked to Hertford now. Justin and Jurga, formerly of The Hillside have been voted in the top 200 places to eat in the UK (see The Sunday Times). This follows their previous awards for the Pea Porridge. I guess Hertford's loss was the gain of Bury St Edmunds.
Reply ID 90758
Ewoowar - make it local by telling us is anyone else in hertford in the list? or perhaps the nearest one?
Reply ID 90767
The nearest being Auberge Du Lac.
Reply ID 90874
But it's far, far, far more expensive than Pea Porridge. And a more high-falutin', less relaxing atmosphere. Go to Bury instead.
Reply ID 90877
quote:I agree and intend to.
Originally posted by Mr P
But it's far, far, far more expensive than Pea Porridge. And a more high-falutin', less relaxing atmosphere. Go to Bury instead.