Topic ID 5776
Demolition work starts on the old lager plant [img]../images/forum/lager-plant-demolition.jpg[/img]
Reply ID 79347
Do they have an estimated completion date yet?
Reply ID 79348
Autumn I believe
Reply ID 79349
Any ideas as to how old that building was? - looks 70's - and if so, what was on that site before that? Any photos?
Reply ID 79350
Some internal pics here of the main building [url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/landie_man/sets/72157622814355542/[/url]
Reply ID 79351
quote:It was built in the 70s when McMullens started brewing Hartsman. It was previously wasteland, possibly associated with the old Cowbridge station. [img]../images/forum/brewery-aerial-old.jpg[/img] I'd guess this shot was taken around the late sixties.
Originally posted by Arty
Any ideas as to how old that building was? - looks 70's - and if so, what was on that site before that? Any photos?
Reply ID 79352
quote:Excellent! I'm so glad someone got some internal shots before work started.
Originally posted by Leo Densian
Some internal pics here of the main building [url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/landie_man/sets/72157622814355542/[/url]
Reply ID 79353
I seem to remember that the wasteland used to have a free unsurfaced carpark on it (or if private they didn't mind people parking there).
Reply ID 79355
quote:Excellent record. I love the picture which includes a discarded Vicks throat-spray carton. I trust that this has no relevance to the brewing process[:)]
Originally posted by Leo Densian
Some internal pics here of the main building [url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/landie_man/sets/72157622814355542/[/url]
Reply ID 79362
quote:Nice shot........and with the old station still present.
Originally posted by Stevequote:It was built in the 70s when McMullens started brewing Hartsman. It was previously wasteland, possibly associated with the old Cowbridge station. [img]../images/forum/brewery-aerial-old.jpg[/img] I'd guess this shot was taken around the late sixties.
Originally posted by Arty
Any ideas as to how old that building was? - looks 70's - and if so, what was on that site before that? Any photos?
Reply ID 79416
My dad used to work there, and I've found some more great picks online http://www.adarkertrantor.co.uk/?p=201
Reply ID 79421
quote:Might have changed a bit now - the copper tanks have been nicked I believe.
Originally posted by Taxing
My dad used to work there, and I've found some more great picks online http://www.adarkertrantor.co.uk/?p=201
Reply ID 79422
Another photo showing demolition of the lager plant and construction of the new road to the Hartham car park and leisure centre (left of picture). [img]../images/forum/building-sainsburys_20110209.jpg[/img]
Reply ID 79423
Are they demolishing the 1970's building or will the old part with the tower be getting knocked down as well?
Reply ID 79424
where is the brewery moving to?
Reply ID 79425
quote:All of the brewing moved to the new Whole Hop Brewery quite a while ago. It's just across the road from the original buildings. http://www.mcmullens.co.uk/ourbeershist.php
Originally posted by teddylad
where is the brewery moving to?
Reply ID 79430
quote:The Victorian brewery ("the old part with the tower") is listed, so they can't demolish it. The rest is going.
Originally posted by Firedupinside
Are they demolishing the 1970's building or will the old part with the tower be getting knocked down as well?
Reply ID 79431
quote:When I saw the Sainsbury's Powerpoint presentation two years ago, it included a view of inside the tower, complete with old copper brewing tanks (sorry can't remember the correct name) and a new coffee shop created in the area.
Originally posted by Stevequote:The Victorian brewery ("the old part with the tower") is listed, so they can't demolish it. The rest is going.
Originally posted by Firedupinside
Are they demolishing the 1970's building or will the old part with the tower be getting knocked down as well?
Reply ID 79432
quote:Plans revised as I understand now the copper has gone
Originally posted by Arty When I saw the Sainsbury's Powerpoint presentation two years ago, it included a view of inside the tower, complete with old copper brewing tanks (sorry can't remember the correct name) and a new coffee shop created in the area.
Reply ID 79433
Can't tell if this is with our without the copper........... http://www.highson.net/2010/04/sainsburys-hertford.html
Reply ID 79434
The stolen hop back was to be a feature of the cafe that was going to be located in the old Victorian brewery. As a result of the theft and other matters, including disabled access, the cafe has now been moved to the new build, although there will be views of the old brewery workings as I understand it. The rest of the Victorian building will be used for back office functions.
Reply ID 79522
[img]../images/forum/your-new-sainsburys-opens-winter-2011.jpg[/img]
Reply ID 79524
oh.........I can't wait
Reply ID 79532
Could be a race going on here. Who will open first Hertfords or WGC new Sainsburys
Reply ID 79534
quote:I think I'd rather watch my nails grow.
Originally posted by hertford born and bred
Could be a race going on here. Who will open first Hertfords or WGC new Sainsburys
Reply ID 79536
quote:Nicked? You don't walk out with these things up your sleeve!
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:Might have changed a bit now - the copper tanks have been nicked I believe.
Originally posted by Taxing
My dad used to work there, and I've found some more great picks online http://www.adarkertrantor.co.uk/?p=201
Reply ID 79540
You turn up with a low loader and wear a yellow High Visibilty jacket .....
quote:
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:Nicked? You don't walk out with these things up your sleeve!
Originally posted by Leo Densianquote:Might have changed a bit now - the copper tanks have been nicked I believe.
Originally posted by Taxing
My dad used to work there, and I've found some more great picks online http://www.adarkertrantor.co.uk/?p=201
Reply ID 79552
quote::-(
Originally posted by Steve
[img]../images/forum/your-new-sainsburys-opens-winter-2011.jpg[/img]
Reply ID 79555
quote:I'm going to check that poster out to see if the words 'Not actual size' is printed on it.
Originally posted by Sargassoquote::-(
Originally posted by Steve
[img]../images/forum/your-new-sainsburys-opens-winter-2011.jpg[/img]
Reply ID 79556
What's with the London 2012 style writing? Are they trying to be 'fun!' (ooozing sarcasm)
Reply ID 79561
quote:Plus an angle grinder or two
Originally posted by Deveraux
You turn up with a low loader and wear a yellow High Visibilty jacket .....
Reply ID 79573
quote:http://www.j-sainsbury.co.uk/index.asp?pageid=517 so i guess they are allowed to do it
Originally posted by Buy Local
What's with the London 2012 style writing? Are they trying to be 'fun!' (ooozing sarcasm)
Reply ID 79575
quote:I believe it's a custom font unconnected with the Olympics. They've been using it for two or three years.
Originally posted by thefair1973quote:http://www.j-sainsbury.co.uk/index.asp?pageid=517 so i guess they are allowed to do it
Originally posted by Buy Local
What's with the London 2012 style writing? Are they trying to be 'fun!' (ooozing sarcasm)
Reply ID 79773
According to the Mercury the contractors have damaged protected trees. They have fenced off a number of car parking spaces on Hartham to secure the area.
Reply ID 79775
quote:http://www.hertford.net/blog
Originally posted by Eyeone
According to the Mercury the contractors have damaged protected trees. They have fenced off a number of car parking spaces on Hartham to secure the area.
Reply ID 79778
From their website: Whether it's helping our customers eat a healthy balanced diet, working closely with our suppliers and farmers, reducing our impact on the environment, playing an active role in the communities we serve, or making Sainsbury's a great place to work, behaving as a responsible retailer is part of our heritage. No doubt they will be bringing their contractors to book then with the hefty fine I have no doubt will be levied...
Reply ID 79779
I trust that the costs incurred are either borne by Sainsbury or are fully recoverable from them.
Reply ID 79786
Never mind the cost, it's an absolute disgrace that these trees have been damaged.
Reply ID 79795
I agree with Sarah no amount of money can recover many years of growth on established trees. If they have been damaged to the point that they die you can't just buy and replant a fully mature tree.
Reply ID 79805
quote:I never said that money could replace a mature tree. My point is to ensure that those responsible for the damage, which I agree is disgraceful, are taken to task for the full costs of their recklessness.
Originally posted by Marilyn
I agree with Sarah no amount of money can recover many years of growth on established trees. If they have been damaged to the point that they die you can't just buy and replant a fully mature tree.
Reply ID 79807
quote:But with someone as big as Sainsburys and the like will it make any difference whatever they are fined......................
Originally posted by Woodyquote:I never said that money could replace a mature tree. My point is to ensure that those responsible for the damage, which I agree is disgraceful, are taken to task for the full costs of their recklessness.
Originally posted by Marilyn
I agree with Sarah no amount of money can recover many years of growth on established trees. If they have been damaged to the point that they die you can't just buy and replant a fully mature tree.
Reply ID 79809
quote:Probably not. But it will impact us if we have to bare any of the costs through our council taxes.
Originally posted by Marilynquote:But with someone as big as Sainsburys and the like will it make any difference whatever they are fined......................
Originally posted by Woodyquote:I never said that money could replace a mature tree. My point is to ensure that those responsible for the damage, which I agree is disgraceful, are taken to task for the full costs of their recklessness.
Originally posted by Marilyn
I agree with Sarah no amount of money can recover many years of growth on established trees. If they have been damaged to the point that they die you can't just buy and replant a fully mature tree.
Reply ID 79810
True I was think of the penalty to them to deter them in the futureb rather than the cost of putting it right which of course the have to bear. If it can be put right.
Reply ID 79813
Is it just carelessness though? I have heard that in the past demolition companies have knocked down whole buildings by mistake - most of them are listed which is quite strange as I'd have thought they would take more care. Of course they get a fine but surprisingly most accept it with a smile and build a new block of flats on the plot; quite often they go back to the council and plead that as the old building is no longer there that they can build even more flats on the plot. The same with trees really - once they are out of the way maybe access could be granted to ease traffic problems in Hartham Lane by accessing part of the car park via the EHDC car park in Hartham?
Reply ID 79814
quote:Easier just to remove the bollards that divide the car park.
Originally posted by Golden
The same with trees really - once they are out of the way maybe access could be granted to ease traffic problems in Hartham Lane by accessing part of the car park via the EHDC car park in Hartham?
Reply ID 79815
But then you couldn't control access via the car park to Hartham lane and the town - if the sainsbury car park was divided like the Hartham car park then access could be controlled in/out via Port Hill. I don't think it would happen but its possible. I'm not sure exactly where the trees have been damaged but if the bollards in EHDC car park were relocated this could be possible - it might actually make some sense to ease the pressure on Hartham Lane?
Reply ID 79816
quote:Have ypu tried coming out on to Port Hill.............it is even worse that hartham lane as there is so little sight lines .
Originally posted by Golden
But then you couldn't control access via the car park to Hartham lane and the town - if the sainsbury car park was divided like the Hartham car park then access could be controlled in/out via Port Hill. I don't think it would happen but its possible. I'm not sure exactly where the trees have been damaged but if the bollards in EHDC car park were relocated this could be possible - it might actually make some sense to ease the pressure on Hartham Lane?
Reply ID 79817
quote:I don't think the bridge leading to the car park from Port Hill is suitable for the amount of traffic accessing a supermarket car park. And I'm not sure those residents by the entrance to the car park would be best chuffed if the plans were amended to allow this access route. My only hope is that the local authority is not bullied by the tactics of a sophisticated strategy of a developer. Time and time again local authorities and planning departments are out-witted, out-muscled or out-financed. Sainsburys and their developers are no mugs and they plan exactly what they need to do to achieve their aims. They need to be confronted by a similiarly well planned approach from local authorities.
Originally posted by Golden
But then you couldn't control access via the car park to Hartham lane and the town - if the sainsbury car park was divided like the Hartham car park then access could be controlled in/out via Port Hill. I don't think it would happen but its possible. I'm not sure exactly where the trees have been damaged but if the bollards in EHDC car park were relocated this could be possible - it might actually make some sense to ease the pressure on Hartham Lane?
Reply ID 79818
The fencing in the car park has now come down, suggesting the future is secure for the trees. In fact the fencing has now gone up inside the Sainsbury's perimeter, preventing contractors from getting near them. Notices attached to the fencing say "Keep Clear - Protected Trees".
Reply ID 79820
Looks as if those signs should have gone up before the contractors started as it seem they did not know what they were doing. (Or did the?) A fine will mean little or nothing to Sainsburys. It will be interesting to see that if the trees do have to come down Sainsburys seize the opportunity to improve access to their store. I have to say that any more traffic trying to onto Port Hill would be madness.
Reply ID 79835
quote:When has the local authority ever done anything well planned?!!
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:I don't think the bridge leading to the car park from Port Hill is suitable for the amount of traffic accessing a supermarket car park. And I'm not sure those residents by the entrance to the car park would be best chuffed if the plans were amended to allow this access route. My only hope is that the local authority is not bullied by the tactics of a sophisticated strategy of a developer. Time and time again local authorities and planning departments are out-witted, out-muscled or out-financed. Sainsburys and their developers are no mugs and they plan exactly what they need to do to achieve their aims. They need to be confronted by a similiarly well planned approach from local authorities.
Originally posted by Golden
But then you couldn't control access via the car park to Hartham lane and the town - if the sainsbury car park was divided like the Hartham car park then access could be controlled in/out via Port Hill. I don't think it would happen but its possible. I'm not sure exactly where the trees have been damaged but if the bollards in EHDC car park were relocated this could be possible - it might actually make some sense to ease the pressure on Hartham Lane?
Reply ID 79840
After the tree fiasco I’m sure I caught a glimpse of a sign on the site fence in Hartham lane emblazoned with the words ‘Considerate Contractors’ Ironic or what?
Reply ID 79845
quote:http://www.ccscheme.org.uk They're based in Ware.
Originally posted by Eyeone
After the tree fiasco I’m sure I caught a glimpse of a sign on the site fence in Hartham lane emblazoned with the words ‘Considerate Contractors’ Ironic or what?
Reply ID 79874
every commercial development has that sign. It's just marketing bull!
Reply ID 79877
quote:Not all. Unicoin Homes didn't when they built in Hertford but then they really wouldn't have had the cheek to.
Originally posted by codek2
every commercial development has that sign. It's just marketing bull!
Reply ID 79967
What a surprise.......another large organisation merrily sticking two fingers up at the planning department and council. http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Fears-over-latest-plans-to-expand-Sainsburys-in-Hertford.htm It's just a shame that we can't spring their internal emails which I'm sure would probably demonstrate that this scope creep was planned all along.......as well as whatever other subtle little changes and planning abuse they have up their sleeves.
Reply ID 79968
If a supermarket operator had not been willing to purchase a portion of this brewery site and commit the required devlopment funding, it is most likely that the site would have remained derelict for many years to come. The core themes of this development are (i)opening up the riverside on this side of town (ii) refurbishing a once great building (iii) providing more food retail floorspace which there is a proven need for. My point is that it is too easy to simply verbally bash the coporates such as Sainsburys in this instance, whilst ignoring the benefits that they are bringing to the town. Whilst I am sure that a great deal of the posters on this forum have already read through all of the planning submissions and the approved final drawings, if you have not, I would encourage you to do so. [:)]
Reply ID 79970
quote:Here here
Originally posted by Chalkie
If a supermarket operator had not been willing to purchase a portion of this brewery site and commit the required devlopment funding, it is most likely that the site would have remained derelict for many years to come. The core themes of this development are (i)opening up the riverside on this side of town (ii) refurbishing a once great building (iii) providing more food retail floorspace which there is a proven need for. My point is that it is too easy to simply verbally bash the coporates such as Sainsburys in this instance, whilst ignoring the benefits that they are bringing to the town. Whilst I am sure that a great deal of the posters on this forum have already read through all of the planning submissions and the approved final drawings, if you have not, I would encourage you to do so. [:)]
Reply ID 79977
quote:Or even 'hear hear' [;)]
Originally posted by Kitty Katquote:Here here
Originally posted by Chalkie
If a supermarket operator had not been willing to purchase a portion of this brewery site and commit the required devlopment funding, it is most likely that the site would have remained derelict for many years to come. The core themes of this development are (i)opening up the riverside on this side of town (ii) refurbishing a once great building (iii) providing more food retail floorspace which there is a proven need for. My point is that it is too easy to simply verbally bash the coporates such as Sainsburys in this instance, whilst ignoring the benefits that they are bringing to the town. Whilst I am sure that a great deal of the posters on this forum have already read through all of the planning submissions and the approved final drawings, if you have not, I would encourage you to do so. [:)]
Reply ID 79983
quote:I have no objection to the corporate coming to town.........my objection is to the scant regard to the consideration for access, a point given greater credance when the planning application was eventually granted and immediately followed by an appeal through the Mercury for the good people of Hertford to suggest ways to solve the traffic issues that would be created, and then by issues such as not giving a monkeys for the planning stipulations. Sainsburys are welcome..........but stick within the criteria the planning inspectorate laid down. They will still be here regardless. But when they try to flout the planning criteria it is just sticking two fingers up at the planning regs, the council, and you and I. They were granted the application and accepted the criteria laid down without challenging it. Trying to slyly make amendments that breach that application is a massive demonstration of disrespect. And let's not think it is an oversight or a change of plan. Sainsburys are no mugs and I don't believe I am over cynical by suggesting that increasing the size of the cafe was planned all along once the restriction was set. The planning regulations and set criteria laid down for certain developments are there for a good reason. It doesn't stop the store coming to town but makes sure they do so with consideration for the area they are moving into. I'm afraid they already demonstrate scant regard for that but that's not a surprise. What is a surprise is that people think it's okay.
Originally posted by Chalkie
If a supermarket operator had not been willing to purchase a portion of this brewery site and commit the required devlopment funding, it is most likely that the site would have remained derelict for many years to come. The core themes of this development are (i)opening up the riverside on this side of town (ii) refurbishing a once great building (iii) providing more food retail floorspace which there is a proven need for. My point is that it is too easy to simply verbally bash the coporates such as Sainsburys in this instance, whilst ignoring the benefits that they are bringing to the town. Whilst I am sure that a great deal of the posters on this forum have already read through all of the planning submissions and the approved final drawings, if you have not, I would encourage you to do so. [:)]
Reply ID 79985
If I have read your post correctly, the only area in which you believe Sainsburys are attempting to amend the consent that they were granted, is in respect of the size of the cafe. I have not seen any documentation yet re this, however if they do achieve this, it will not be possible for them to do so in a sly manner, it will be achieved in the public domain and only to the satisfaction of the Local Planning Authority. Also, increasing the size of the cafe does not neccesarily equate to an increase in tradeable space, for example it may be a servicing area. In addition, there is the chance that the LPA may actually transfer part of the total consented floorspace over to this use, if scope to do so can be indentified. My point is that development is a moveable feast and it is common place apply to adjust an existing consent on a scheme of this size and complexity, particulalry given the issues of adhering to the conservation area and listed status. As to whether a larger cafe would seriously negatively affect cafe operators in the town, I am not convinced that it would. Supermarket cafes don't have long dwell times and are only really utilised by in store customers. The ambience of town and the variety that it offers, both from a retailing and cultural point of view, can't be replicated by a supermarket operator in this location. [:)]
Reply ID 79986
quote:Ref: http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Fears-over-latest-plans-to-expand-Sainsburys-in-Hertford.htm Not exactly documentary and laid before us but probably sufficient at this point to generate the discussion and concerns. Unfortnately you are correct, slyness is not a trait. they tend to try to slip these 'amendments' through and then hope the weight of the 'benefits' of their development and the fact that it is in progress have sufficient momentum to see them through and this is not always to the satisfaction of the local planning authority. The simple fact that the entire development was referred to the inspectorate demonstrates that the satisfaction of the local planning authority is not always met.
Originally posted by Chalkie
If I have read your post correctly, the only area in which you believe Sainsburys are attempting to amend the consent that they were granted, is in respect of the size of the cafe. I have not seen any documentation yet re this, however if they do achieve this, it will not be possible for them to do so in a sly manner, it will be achieved in the public domain and only to the satisfaction of the Local Planning Authority. Also, increasing the size of the cafe does not neccesarily equate to an increase in tradeable space, for example it may be a servicing area. In addition, there is the chance that the LPA may actually transfer part of the total consented floorspace over to this use, if scope to do so can be indentified. My point is that development is a moveable feast and it is common place apply to adjust an existing consent on a scheme of this size and complexity, particulalry given the issues of adhering to the conservation area and listed status. As to whether a larger cafe would seriously negatively affect cafe operators in the town, I am not convinced that it would. Supermarket cafes don't have long dwell times and are only really utilised by in store customers. The ambience of town and the variety that it offers, both from a retailing and cultural point of view, can't be replicated by a supermarket operator in this location. [:)]
Reply ID 80088
Would it not be possible for Sainsburys to replace the copper hopback? It would be a fitting gesture to the heritage of the site too. http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Sainsburys-accused-of-planning-by-stealth.htm
Reply ID 80089
quote:"...the food giant will place an interpretation store over the two floors of the listed building." What's an interpretation store?
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Would it not be possible for Sainsburys to replace the copper hopback? It would be a fitting gesture to the heritage of the site too. http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Sainsburys-accused-of-planning-by-stealth.htm
Reply ID 80090
quote:Any replacement though would only be a modern replica. A piece of history has been lost.
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Would it not be possible for Sainsburys to replace the copper hopback? It would be a fitting gesture to the heritage of the site too. http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Sainsburys-accused-of-planning-by-stealth.htm
Reply ID 80093
They can’t afford a replica as they have an extra 40m2 of café space to pay for[:p]
Reply ID 80094
quote:Do you know how much that would cost?
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Would it not be possible for Sainsburys to replace the copper hopback?
Reply ID 80096
quote:Strangely, no. And, frankly, I care little.
Originally posted by Stevequote:Do you know how much that would cost?
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Would it not be possible for Sainsburys to replace the copper hopback?
Reply ID 80098
quote:Their profit before tax for the 6 months ending 2 October 2010 was £466m. I think they can afford it!
Originally posted by Stevequote:Do you know how much that would cost?
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Would it not be possible for Sainsburys to replace the copper hopback?
Reply ID 80099
And their current debt is I believe over 2 billion pounds,so it doesn't really matter how much profit they made last year.
Reply ID 80100
quote:Their balance sheet shows net assets in excess of £4.5bn, including property assets in excess of £6.5bn, so I still think they can afford it. [:)]
Originally posted by dutch knight
And their current debt is I believe over 2 billion pounds,so it doesn't really matter how much profit they made last year.
Reply ID 80111
Whilst preparing the new access road, the contractors have unearthed some of the foundations of the old Cowbridge station [img]../images/forum/cowbridge-station-foundations.jpg[/img]
Reply ID 80549
As part of the development, Hartham Lane will become pedestrian access only. Vehicle access will be provided by a new road running from Old Cross to the store, Hartham Common and the leisure centre. [?]
Reply ID 80550
quote:...what on earth does 'renaturalised banks of the River Lea'...mean?
Originally posted by Steve
http://www.sainsburys-hertford.co.uk
Reply ID 80553
Where is the pedestrian blue line on the 'Getting to the site' section?
Reply ID 80554
quote:Making them look natural? But my concern is that to achieve the view in the image they show would require redirecting the river......me thinks that is not in the plan.
Originally posted by Artyquote:...what on earth does 'renaturalised banks of the River Lea'...mean?
Originally posted by Steve
http://www.sainsburys-hertford.co.uk
Reply ID 80556
quote:Hartham Lane splits into 2 - it's the bit that goes down to Hartham at present that will be pedestrian access only. The "New Road" is made up of the other fork that goes past Eakins and down to the Industrial Estate where Universal Telecomms are based, and then along a new bit of road down the side of those buildings. It's going to be chaos
Originally posted by James007
As part of the development, Hartham Lane will become pedestrian access only. Vehicle access will be provided by a new road running from Old Cross to the store, Hartham Common and the leisure centre. [?]
Reply ID 80558
I find it so sad that planners seem to think that allowing building along river banks somehow enhances the riverscape and makes it more "attractive" and "accessible". The consultation on the East Herts website for the Mead Lane area is all about building along the towpath and "enhancing" the environment too. IMHO river banks should be overgrown and a bit muddy rather than a strip of manicured communal garden leading from some flats. We are lucky to have such natuallly attractive areas right in the middle of the town, why should we want to urbanise every inch? There would be a public outcry if Sainsburys built on the shores of Windermere - but for me, this is just as bad and Hartham is ruined for ever. [V]
Reply ID 80559
quote:Where are they building along the riverbank?
Originally posted by newgirl
I find it so sad that planners seem to think that allowing building along river banks somehow enhances the riverscape and makes it more "attractive" and "accessible".
Reply ID 80560
quote:At the moment, the riverbank is a concrete wall
Originally posted by Artyquote:...what on earth does 'renaturalised banks of the River Lea'...mean?
Originally posted by Steve
http://www.sainsburys-hertford.co.uk
Reply ID 80561
quote:Come on, that's a bit of an exaggeration surely? Hartham is a massive space and they are building/amending one tiny part of it. How does that ruin the rest of it?
Originally posted by newgirl
...and Hartham is ruined for ever. [V]
Reply ID 80562
quote:They're not building on ANY of it.
Originally posted by thefair1973quote:Come on, that's a bit of an exaggeration surely? Hartham is a massive space and they are building/amending one tiny part of it. How does that ruin the rest of it?
Originally posted by newgirl
...and Hartham is ruined for ever. [V]
Reply ID 80563
At least this may open up the riverbank that's been hidden behind Macs for many years. Newgirl I agree that the natural beauty of such areas should where possible be preserved but if you've seen in this particular part of the river recently its more like a rubbish tip; it needs a good clean out. Areas such as this and the adjoining area by coopers yard are enhancing the town's place on the river. In my opinion the worst bit of planning was to build the back of Waitrose onto the river making it very unattractive, my only thought on this is that it was done to preserve the privacy of the residents opposite but they could have done something to make it a little more aesthetically pleasing.
Reply ID 80564
quote:Yes, that view is confusing. Where exactly is it supposed to be from?
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:Making them look natural? But my concern is that to achieve the view in the image they show would require redirecting the river......me thinks that is not in the plan.
Originally posted by Artyquote:...what on earth does 'renaturalised banks of the River Lea'...mean?
Originally posted by Steve
http://www.sainsburys-hertford.co.uk
Reply ID 80565
quote:Folly Island, where the new houses were built on the car park.
Originally posted by dennismoorequote:Yes, that view is confusing. Where exactly is it supposed to be from?
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:Making them look natural? But my concern is that to achieve the view in the image they show would require redirecting the river......me thinks that is not in the plan.
Originally posted by Artyquote:...what on earth does 'renaturalised banks of the River Lea'...mean?
Originally posted by Steve
http://www.sainsburys-hertford.co.uk
Reply ID 80580
quote:Yes. At last I'm not the only one......the whole area will be chaos. Not all of the time but those who, unbelievably, said that it would not result in traffic problems may be proved wrong.
Originally posted by Deverauxquote:Hartham Lane splits into 2 - it's the bit that goes down to Hartham at present that will be pedestrian access only. The "New Road" is made up of the other fork that goes past Eakins and down to the Industrial Estate where Universal Telecomms are based, and then along a new bit of road down the side of those buildings. It's going to be chaos
Originally posted by James007
As part of the development, Hartham Lane will become pedestrian access only. Vehicle access will be provided by a new road running from Old Cross to the store, Hartham Common and the leisure centre. [?]
Reply ID 80590
Ewoowar, I fully agree with you. Time will tell!
Reply ID 80976
Has anybody heard anything more about what is planned inside the store? I have heard that they are going to open up a more premium alcohol section encorperating some faux brewery equipment in the decor. I have noticed this seems to be the theme in the cafe/pizza shop.
Reply ID 80977
quote:Hartsman and Steingold?
Originally posted by MrBrown102 I have heard that they are going to open up a more premium alcohol section
Reply ID 80979
Will there also be a premium fromage selection to compliment the premium alcohol to delight the local Wine & Cheese Society (outdoor section) whom, incidentally, I have noticed recently gathering close by the site at the climbing wall at Hartham Common, perhaps in eager anticipation of the grand opening?
Reply ID 80980
quote:They committed a faux pas and were banished from the pavilion in the Castle grounds. [:D]
Originally posted by Woody
Will there also be a premium fromage selection to compliment the premium alcohol to delight the local Wine & Cheese Society (outdoor section) whom, incidentally, I have noticed recently gathering close by the site at the climbing wall at Hartham Common, perhaps in eager anticipation of the grand opening?
Reply ID 81154
Does anybody know why work on the site has stalled, and will their completion date be put back because of this? Not seen any action down there this month!
Reply ID 81156
Rumour (& is only that) is Project Manager walked out in a huff.... Anyone got more reliable info??
Reply ID 81406
Nearly a month now with little work on site. I imagine the brown stuff to be quite deep.
Reply ID 81448
I sent an email to Sainsbury's querying the halt in work. This is the reply I got (exactly the same as printed in The Mercury) With demolition work to clear the store site nearing completion, Sainsbury's has taken the opportunity to pause construction to review the progress it has made to date and map out the programme of work going forward for delivering this complex town centre scheme. Sainsbury's remains firmly committed to this milestone store, which will bring a range of benefits to Hertford, including enhanced competition and choice for the community. We will be in touch with local residents in the near future to provide them with the updated timetable for construction work. Why do big companies treat people like idiots by issuing such statments? Do they really expect us to believe that they didn't have the project planned fully from beginning to end? No. The fact is that something has gone seriously wrong but Sainsbury's can't be honest and open about it. Worse, still there doesn't appear to be a contingency plan. A month-long unscheduled "pause" in any large construction project is serious. The truth will always out. (this formed much of my response to Sainsbury's fob-off).
Reply ID 81464
Today's a Bank Holiday. Listed buildings in Hertford have a habit of spontaneously demolishing themselves on such days don't they? Just a thought.
Reply ID 81568
The project has now been stalled for six weeks.
Reply ID 81569
I did see a workman there this morning, that's right one workman [:D]
Reply ID 81570
quote:A workman or security?
Originally posted by ~Sarah~
I did see a workman there this morning, that's right one workman [:D]
Reply ID 81572
No idea, he was dressed in the bright orange with a white hard hat...
Reply ID 81578
was he sucking his breath through his teeth and saying "ooooh it's gonna cost ya" ? :)
Reply ID 81581
Definitely a couple of workers on site this morning although they were standing around pretty much doing what Codek2 described!
Reply ID 81583
Yes, I saw said workman 'working' this morning, towards the Port Hill end of the site, bent over doing something.....
Reply ID 81589
Has Sainsbury's just realised that they won't be able to get their lorries round the corner at Cowbridge and that's why work has stalled....
Reply ID 81592
quote:I don't think so..........I think they knew that all along which is why after the permission was granted the council then asked the public for suggestions as to how to alleviate the traffic problems.
Originally posted by Bubbaoshea
Has Sainsbury's just realised that they won't be able to get their lorries round the corner at Cowbridge and that's why work has stalled....
Reply ID 81623
quote:Well it worked with the Mercury ......
Originally posted by Steve
Why do big companies treat people like idiots by issuing such statments? Do they really expect us to believe that they didn't have the project planned fully from beginning to end?
Reply ID 81647
I noticed when passing on Sunday that the banners that originally said, something along the lines of "opening November 2011" appear to have all disappeared.
Reply ID 81676
They've actually cut out the date from the banners leaving a hole. Very strange! I note the http://www.sainsburys-hertford.co.uk/ hasn't been updated since March, and the Twitter site has never tweeted. Poor communication from an organisation that claimed to want to involve and benefit the local community!
Reply ID 81678
Why not make your feelings felt..... http://www.sainsburys-hertford.co.uk/have-your-say.aspx
Reply ID 81679
quote:I tried that and got the exact same statement that they gave to The Mercury - word for word.
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Why not make your feelings felt..... http://www.sainsburys-hertford.co.uk/have-your-say.aspx
Reply ID 81686
Maybe they have just discovered they can't get the building supplies delivered down there as large lorries won't fit [:D]
Reply ID 81698
Here is the latest statement on behalf on Sainsbury's Following our most recent planning approval, we are working with the Local Authority and County Council officers to finalise all technical agreements necessary to deliver this scheme. Whilst this work is nearing conclusion, we have taken the opportunity to review the retail layout in line with learnings from recently opened stores to ensure the best possible experience for our customers and as such we can confirm there will be a delay in the construction programme for our new store, which will now open in summer 2012. Works to the McMullen’s Brewery will recommence in the next couple of weeks to complete their car park and new entrance. These works are expected to finish late October. Our commitment to deliver a new Sainsbury’s to Hertford remains as strong as ever and would like to thank the community for bearing with us during this time. We will keep local residents informed as soon the new construction programme has been confirmed. So the opening date has been pushed back six months. The first paragraph hints that negotiations with the local authority may be the reason why work cannot progress. Interestingly they don't give a date for work on the supermarket to restart, although they do say that work on the new entrance and car park for McMullens will start in two weeks.
Reply ID 81746
Maybe if they just knocked down McMullens and did us a favour! I really do not know how they will get the larger delivery lorries and increased traffic into that area... I am not unhappy in any way that the work has stopped. I love Sainsburys but this site is not right....
Reply ID 81755
The size of the lorries that they will probably use will only be the same size of lorry that McMullens used to use,and these also used to travel down Port Vale. They will be no bigger than the ones that Co-op use to deliver to their stores in Sele Farm and Bengeo. The lorries really won't be an issue, the volume of traffic will.
Reply ID 81823
quote:For and on behalf.....the response comes from PPSGroup. Sainsbury's are still using PPSGroup for the project which suggests to me there is still a long way to go. At least PPSGroup are not wearing a Sainsburys badge as they did at the public consultation. To their credit PPSGroup have changed their web site from the arrogant, flag waving shot in the foot it was a few years ago. Yet they are still the company that organised a public consultation on the Sainsburys development at the Corn Exchange and when I spoke to their 'traffic consultant' on the final day he still had not bothered to walk the few hundred yards to see the site and the roads for himself. Quality.... As their own web site states...."We build and protect reputations for businesses and other organisations and we engage with communities and politicians to gain planning consent on complex planning matters." In the case of Hertford the engagement with the community appears to have been a box ticking exercise. Many developments need amending. Things are not always perfect when the proposals are submitted for planning approval. But their desire to expand the cafe is a rather odd change. I would even ask why there is a need for a cafe. If the intention is not to detract from the town and to allow shoppers to leave their cars parked in the Sainsburys car park and access the town shops then there is no need for a cafe as the town is aready served by a number of cafes. In fact the additional trade into the town could increase the business for the cafes if the Sainsburys shoppers were in need of food or drink after their shop. But does anybody really think Sainsburys are bothered about that? Let's be honest and realistic. It's a shameless and probably pre-planned attempt to change the design that again sticks two fingers up at the planning authorities and the town. If Sainsburys really had any consideration for the town they're not demonstrating it.
Originally posted by Steve
Here is the latest statement on behalf on Sainsbury's
Reply ID 81824
quote:I think that post sums up the situation perfectly Ewoowar.
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:If Sainsburys really had any consideration for the town they're not demonstrating it.
Originally posted by Steve
Here is the latest statement on behalf on Sainsbury's
Reply ID 81892
Sainsburys will have no more consideration for the town than Tesco does. They both just want to sell as much stuff as they can and they don't care about anyone else.
Reply ID 81893
Hmmmm........tesco. Where do I begin? Light the blue touch paper and stand well clear.
Reply ID 81894
Please could we not drift off-topic by introducing Tesco into the discussion [:)]
Reply ID 81895
quote:Don't worry. That's exactly why I didn't bother. And anyways.....there's always Admin to keep us in line.
Originally posted by Steve
Please could we not drift off-topic by introducing Tesco into the discussion [:)]
Reply ID 81896
I heard on the grapevine they are negotiating changing the % of floor space that is food so that is less, other items more and possibly the coffee shop not sure how accurate that is, as long as they are not planning to knock down the buildings they have been told have to stay!
Reply ID 81944
I think their Twitter account says it all really http://twitter.com/#!/hertfordJS
Reply ID 81947
thats highly unlikely to be official.
Reply ID 81948
quote:It is actually. There's a link to it from the official site at http://www.sainsburys-hertford.co.uk.
Originally posted by codek2
thats highly unlikely to be official.
Reply ID 81959
wonder why they made such a token effort? i.e. didnt bother to upload a sainsburys logo, which takes all of 5 secs, nothing tweeted. Very odd. Better off not bothering until it's actually going to be used. Mind you; there are not many companies who do actually know how to use twitter correctly. So I guess I shouldnt be surprised at their ineptness.
Reply ID 82041
I see all the banners have now come down, so its much easier to view the non progress, altghough there is a digger working on the McMullen's side today. Does this removal represent a managing of expectations or something more ....?
Reply ID 82047
Have they accidentally stumbled upon one of the Knights Templar's tunnels that criss cross underneath Hertford?
Reply ID 82048
quote:Don't even THINK about trying to start a discussion on that again [:0]
Originally posted by Arty
Have they accidentally stumbled upon one of the Knights Templar's tunnels that criss cross underneath Hertford?
Reply ID 82227
Maybe they found something like this at the Hertford site? Might explain the lack of work. May also explain the taste of the beer too... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-14189794
Reply ID 82233
More than likely they hit a sewer pipe and Folly Island will float away if they do any more work.. just a thought [:D]
Reply ID 82595
For illustration. You'll see that the vehicle on the left was forced to reverse so that the articulated lorry could get out. Luckily, there were no other vehicles behind to prevent this. You'll also see that the lorry mounted the kerb. [img]../images/forum/lorry-turning-hartham-lane1.jpg[/img] [img]../images/forum/lorry-turning-hartham-lane2.jpg[/img]
Reply ID 82596
Yes,that is a 13 metre trailer,but Sainsbury will send a driver to the site to assess the route to and from the store and he should reccomend that only 8 metre trailers are used or if they cannot be used then a rear-steer option should be used. These trailers are better because they follow the route of the unit a lot more closely than a normal trailer
Reply ID 82597
This is what I have seen on several occasions and the MAIN reason I opposed this redevelopment. Look at it. Whatever your views, this is not acceptable to mount pavements etc and tell me they'll send a smaller lorry, clearly they haven't in this case and I have 5 other occasions in the 2 years that I have witnessed in my car from Bengeo, one only earlier this year when a mum and toddler on a scooter had to literally push themselves into the shop front of the hairdressers at this point. I love Sainsburys, but this is too high a price just to be able to buy some food.. Should never have been voted in... [:(!]
Reply ID 82598
Is this lorry anything to do with sainsbury? Maybe it is something to do with the building work? There are other businesses in Hartham Lane aswell,but,when the store opens,the Sainsbury lorries will not be this size.
Reply ID 82599
It makes no difference if its building work or not! Sainsburys and their contractors already know that a lorry of this size is way too big, sorry these photos prove a point made by lots of Hertfords public. And its no consolation to me, when the pavements are ruined by these heavy artics, and potential accidents with vehicles and pedestrians are about to occur, but its okay because they're just building the premises at the moment! Not a reasoned argument that once they've ruined the pavements before its opened, they won't use them anymore.. I think its indefensible and if they are truly interested or care a jot, they'll make all contractors lorries the smaller size now too... Wonder if thats scotch mist too
Reply ID 82600
quote:Is this a cast iron guarantee? If so, who from?
Originally posted by dutch knight
......but,when the store opens,the Sainsbury lorries will not be this size.
Reply ID 82601
But how do you know this lorry has anything to do with Sainsbury or the building works? There are other premises that are down there and lorries of this size have used this junction for years. I am not saying that this is ok,but what I am saying is that when Sainsbury lorries come in they will not be this size,so how can you critisize Sainsbury when it may have nothing to do with them?
Reply ID 82602
quote:No this isn't a cast iron guarantee but any LGV risk assessor who knows his job will not allow 13 metre trailers to go to the store
Originally posted by Ewoowarquote:Is this a cast iron guarantee? If so, who from?
Originally posted by dutch knight
......but,when the store opens,the Sainsbury lorries will not be this size.
Reply ID 82603
quote:Clearly the LGC assessor that allowed this one didn't [:D] TBH I simply posted this as an illustration of artics vs the Cowbridge/Hartham Lane junction. Whether or not the vehicle was associated with Sainsbury's is completely irrelevant. Of course, you could argue that I should have created a new thread as the issue here isn't directly a Sainsbury's one, merely about the ability of the junction to handle certain forms of traffic. However, it does feed into the Sainsbury's discussion, which is why I posted it here. Whether or not they actually build the supermarket is an open question at the moment! Which is what this thread is about. So apologies for posting off-topic! I should know better! [:I]
Originally posted by dutch knight
... any LGV risk assessor who knows his job will not allow 13 metre trailers to go to the store
Reply ID 83639
Off and running again soon http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Work-to-re-start-on-Hertford-Sainsburys-store-05102011.htm
Reply ID 83874
I think they should jog on... co-op is better and it's going to make traffic even worse!
Reply ID 84723
Excellent to see the progress being made on the site now. Having revisited the plans again, it is exciting to think of the facelift this part of town will receive. Hopefully the presence of another major supermarket will contribute to the competitive tension between Tesco, M&S and Waitrose, once this store opens in summer 2012. I for one am really looking forward to seeing the completed development.
Reply ID 86085
does anybody know whether the car park at Hartham Common will still be usable once Sainsbury's is completed? and will we still have to go from Cowgate past Sainsbury's to get to the leisure centre?
Reply ID 86089
quote:Not sure what you mean by "usable". In what way might it be "unusable"? The short answer to your question is probably yes.
Originally posted by superfrome
does anybody know whether the car park at Hartham Common will still be usable once Sainsbury's is completed?
quote:Yes, albeit by using the new access road to the west of the site rather than through it (the old "Railway Approach"). http://www.hertford.net/issues/supermarkets.asp
Originally posted by superfrome
... and will we still have to go from Cowgate past Sainsbury's to get to the leisure centre?
Reply ID 86094
But don't worry, access to Hartham will not be impacted in the least bit by the additional traffic.
Reply ID 87249
When is it due to open? Am very excited!!!tescos is useless, and waitroise needs a makeover too!!!
Reply ID 87250
According to their website they should be opening late summer. I think originally they were to open in May.
Reply ID 87251
I think I saw somewhere they are planning to open Carnival Day
Reply ID 87253
24th June I think
Reply ID 87264
Hertford Sainsbury's @HertfordJS ·More Our recruitment open day is THIS SATURDAY (14th) 10am-4pm at River Room, Hertford Theatre - please RT! @HertfordRetweet
Reply ID 87375
http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Neighbour-to-sue-Hertford-Sainsburys-for-being-too-noisy-19042012.htm Any body who has lived near a construction site will know that there is a large amount of noise especially in the earlier stages when excavation and foundation work is carried out. It seems because Mr Moore works in the construction business he has got of his perch and ruffled his feathers. I hope the £3600 Claim is successful and goes to well deserved local charities and not some construction consultant who could have just turned his TV up a bit more.
Reply ID 87377
I am also very close to the construction site, we recieve letters giving us updates every couple of weeks, meetings to attend etc etc. I think that they are doing a fab job if I am honest. Cant wait for it to open.
Reply ID 87387
quote:Having lost all their IT when the construction people went through their cables I am sure Macs would beg to differ! [:o)]
Originally posted by Louis M I think that they are doing a fab job if I am honest.
Reply ID 88220
23 days to go. I see the signage has gone up and I like what they're doing with the river. [img]../images/forum/sainsburys-building.jpg[/img] [img]../images/forum/sainsburys-river.jpg[/img] [img]../images/forum/sainsburys-bridge.jpg[/img]
Reply ID 88348
The development is looking superb. I think the manner in which the river has been opened up is excellent and will help breath life into this former fringe of the town centre. Footfall is also likley to increase from the Bengeo end of town, through this site and into the Bull Plain approach to the town centre. All in all, an impressive regeneration of a formerly redundant part of the town. Well done.
Reply ID 88349
Still you would be peed off if your house faced the car park now as per picture 2. It does look very nice.
Reply ID 88350
Louis M - You certainly would be, agreed. However fortunately, NIMBYism does not carry much weight in the planning process. I hope they finish the landscaping of the river off to a very high standard to appease the residents that overlook it.
Reply ID 88587
So its officially open. Has anyone been in yet? I will be popping in to have a nosey this evening.
Reply ID 88588
Slideshow of the new store http://www.hertford.net/pictures/sainsbury
Reply ID 88589
quote:Excellent photos[:)]
Originally posted by Steve
Slideshow of the new store http://www.hertford.net/pictures/sainsbury
Reply ID 88590
As building work is now complete would someone like to start a new thread? [:)]