Topic ID 581
Just come back from New York. There is no smoking in any public places. It is brilliant...... smokers all stand outside and get to know one another, none smokers sit insite and do not have to breathe in the funes.... and before you say this is irrelevant admin....... I would like to see this in Hertford, if it works in New York, then it must work in Hertford[:D]
Reply ID 5665
quote:here here
Originally posted by wizkid
Just come back from New York. There is no smoking in any public places. It is brilliant...... smokers all stand outside and get to know one another, none smokers sit insite and do not have to breathe in the funes.... and before you say this is irrelevant admin....... I would like to see this in Hertford, if it works in New York, then it must work in Hertford[:D]
Reply ID 5666
The only issue I have is that smokers effectively get an extra hour break each day when you add up all their fag breaks. How long before pneumonia gets to the smokers who stand outside in all weathers in desperation to satisfy their craving before the big C gets them?
Reply ID 5667
Recently been to Rome, it's been no smoking since mid-January. However, we did find one Bar that had the dreaded 'Smoking Area' Rugby was on and yes it was crammed with English, Welsh and Scot's all Smoking. I have a right to smoke and if I wish to risk the big C then so be it. I do agree that not everyone should have to suffer, just give us our own little area. I wish I had thought of the trade in Rome for Patio Heaters prior to January, they must be doing a roaring trade with most people now wanting to be outside. A Pub in a nearby town adopted the No Smoking at the Bar policy - the bar staff were miffed as most smoked at the end of the bar and they lost the social interaction with the customers (the one's that still went in) Smoking at the bar was then re-instated! [|)]
Reply ID 5670
quote:I used to have this argument too until my partner pointed out the little chats we all have to somebody, the quick bit of surfing we do, the several trips to the coffee machine blah blah blah We could end up getting extremely petty if we were to challenge this biggie. Much as I still can't help getting a bit grrr when someone goes on the 2min walk it takes to get to our smoking area, has their cig, then the 2min walk back, I try not to think about it and just be glad I don't smoke! [:D][;)]
Originally posted by JohnSmith
The only issue I have is that smokers effectively get an extra hour break each day when you add up all their fag breaks.
Reply ID 5673
Oh here we go, the nanny state is upon us !!! Soon you wont be able to wear a loud short in a built up area...
Reply ID 5674
quote:Bear baiting was legal once, as was hitting your wife and beating your children. For every new law there is bound to be those who oppose it or simply do not understand the issues.
Originally posted by Stan
Oh here we go, the nanny state is upon us !!! Soon you wont be able to wear a loud short in a built up area...
Reply ID 5679
quote:As a non-smoker I have a choice. Sometimes I go into a place that allows smoking but usually I do not. If I am with my young son I never go anywhere that allows smoking. The key thing is that by my actions I am not affecting the other people. By not smoking I am not harming the health of someone else. However, the smokers are. Thereby their very actions are affecting me. So don't make them out as equal and down-trodden. Go to a non-smoking pub and by simply being there and enjoying a drink everybody's actions are relatively equal. However, introduce smoking into the equation and the smokers start to impact on everybody, smokers and non-smokers alike.
Originally posted by NewGal
its a good thing igree, but it has to be accepted - each to their own and alot of people still smoke,thats what they choose??? Its the smokers choice and i dont think it fair for us non smokers (the worst beingthe ex smokers)to voice opinions on those that do! Let them, their choice. Accept if we dont like it - then dont go out to places that allow it - but in fairness, most places do have smokers areas, and why not? just get over it - what's next 'oh god these exhaust fumes are killing us?!?!'
Reply ID 5682
But the non-smoking taxpayer still has to stump up the bill when they get treated by the NHS for an entirely preventable and self-inflicted disease, but as an ex-smoker, maybe I should keep my opinions to myself! [;)]
Reply ID 5683
I am all for separate smoking rooms, however, in todays smoking culture they seem to be the largest and best part of the bars. In the Soviet Union, the smoking rooms were in a small, and very unpleasant room, where you could smoke around a spittoon. Lovely!![:)] Don't thnik I approve of the Soviet Union, but it did have its good points.
Reply ID 5697
Steve i think you'll find that the tax take from cigarettes is so large the NHS would collapse if smoking were banned completely. As a non-smoker I have never had a problem with people smoking in pubs. The office is a different matter though.
Reply ID 5699
It's not as simple as just considering the tax on cigarettes. For a start, if fewer people smoke the money they save by not buying cigarettes is spent elsewhere and is therefore likely to be taxed in another form, athough admittedly not as highly.
Reply ID 5707
quote:why?
Originally posted by carlos fandango
Steve i think you'll find that the tax take from cigarettes is so large the NHS would collapse if smoking were banned completely. As a non-smoker I have never had a problem with people smoking in pubs. The office is a different matter though.
Reply ID 5710
why what?
Reply ID 5711
why what? I am assuming.... why is it o.k. to contaminate peoples' lungs in pubs but not in offices?... it doesn't seem very logical. Passive smoking is either dangerous or it is not, and if it is dangerous to third parties, it should not take place in public places. I do not think this is advocating a nanny state, no-one has the right to impair the health of another person, and that is exactly what smokers do. I have to be honest here, I am an ex smoker.... and am very glad I gave it up... the more places people cannot smoke, the more people will give up, very often smoking is a result of association with a particular activity or place....break that link and you start to break the habit.
Reply ID 5712
(Personal declaration: Ex-smoker!) Why what? I made the same assumption. I know it's illogical but I share Carlos's view. I'll sit in a smoky pub and not notice nor complain but I hate smoking in offices (and cars come to that). Happily I've always worked in an environment where smoking was not allowed in the offices. As far as the statement "if it works in New York, then it must work in Hertford" goes, I think there are quite a few differences between the two, so maybe it doesn't hold!
Reply ID 5713
I too have to agree with Carlos - the thing is you choose to go to the pub, you need to go to work. The situation is very different. The association thing is true, I don't yearn for a cigarette at work, although it does a couple of times a day get me away from the screen and give me a little stroll but everyone should leave their desks at some point from a health & safety view point anyway.
Reply ID 5715
I used to sit next to a chain smoker at work and when we banned smoking in the office my family thought I had been a smoker and given up. The thing is in the office you can't get away from it, in a pub you can. I really can't abide the nanny State. In some countries there is a legal precedent that is basically "accidents happen". About time we got that here.
Reply ID 5747
quote:Smoking is a habit. Those who smoke are entitled to damage their own health but not mine. There is nothing 'nanny state' about providing protection for those who choose not to smoke from those who do. Drink driving is illegal for the same reason. Those who drink and drive are perfectly entitled to risk their own health by their actions but not mine. Are these laws 'nanny state' too?
Originally posted by carlos fandango
I used to sit next to a chain smoker at work and when we banned smoking in the office my family thought I had been a smoker and given up. The thing is in the office you can't get away from it, in a pub you can. I really can't abide the nanny State. In some countries there is a legal precedent that is basically "accidents happen". About time we got that here.
Reply ID 5749
quote:What if you work in a pub? Is that tough luck if you dont like smoke, or does working in an office give you a right to be in a non smoking environment. I see what you mean but, hypothetically it does not add up if you think about it. Make it illegal to smoke full stop. Anyone caught smoking gets a bullet through the eyes. Worth a try to see what hapens[:D]
Originally posted by wizkid
why what? I am assuming.... why is it o.k. to contaminate peoples' lungs in pubs but not in offices?... it doesn't seem very logical. Passive smoking is either dangerous or it is not, and if it is dangerous to third parties, it should not take place in public places. I do not think this is advocating a nanny state, no-one has the right to impair the health of another person, and that is exactly what smokers do. I have to be honest here, I am an ex smoker.... and am very glad I gave it up... the more places people cannot smoke, the more people will give up, very often smoking is a result of association with a particular activity or place....break that link and you start to break the habit.
Reply ID 5753
Justin, what a great idea. We could then not have the debate on housing or the tunnel as there would be a distinct drop in the population and Powell's would do a roaring trade[V]
Reply ID 5754
my idea as an x-landlady is not to have smoking areas but smoking pubs and none smoking pubs, then as justin points out if you work in a pub its up to you if you apply to work in a none smoking pub or a smoking one!! even if you made it 30% of pubs smoking and the rest non smoking then people have freedom of choice and our rights as a 'free nation' dont become destroyed.[^] the tax on smoking does support the national health service and therefor to ban it out right would make an already under funded sevrice suffer all the more![:0] also we have to remember that just because people smoke it doesnt mean they automatically get lung cancer!! we all have cancer cells and there are all sorts of things that can make it develop, especially food aditives should we ban all these as well and the steroid and food suplements given to the animals to make them grow befor they go to slauter! in fact where would it stop!![|)]
Reply ID 5767
If there was a demand for non smoking pubs, Business people would be opening them. It has been tried and failed due to insuffucient customers to make it viable. I know a lot of people who only smoke when they are having a drink with friends in the pub. Banning it would force smokers onto the streets outside the pubs, and at weekends I can see even more trouble flaring up. Imagine even just 10% of Baroosh's customers on a friday night, smoking outside and the chaos that would cause with Traffic, pavement being blocked up.
Reply ID 5769
quote:It would keep the queue outside moving, though - pretty good if done as part of the one in/one out policy they operate [:)]
Originally posted by spitfire
Imagine even just 10% of Baroosh's customers on a friday night, smoking outside and the chaos that would cause with Traffic, pavement being blocked up.
Reply ID 5771
I may be wrong but I don't believe there is a shortage of bar staff jobs about. If you don't like working somewhere smokey...go somewhere else. i agree with dawn also.
Reply ID 5773
I am a non smoker, that has several friends that smoke. I also visit the Millstream with non smokers and if you have had the pleasure of drinking there you will know it is one of the smokiest places in Christendom. But do I keep going back? yes! why? I enjoy the atmosphere of the pub. If you do not like smokey pubs, do not go to them. If you drink in Baroosh and do not like the smell of smoke stand in the non smoking section. They will not ban smoking it brings in too much tax revenue. Unless forced by the govenment, pub and bars will not ban smoking as they will loose revenue. At the end of the day, its all boils down to money. Get used to it!
Reply ID 5776
quote:It will happen. I say the sooner the better.
Originally posted by Victor Meldrew
I am a non smoker, that has several friends that smoke. I also visit the Millstream with non smokers and if you have had the pleasure of drinking there you will know it is one of the smokiest places in Christendom. But do I keep going back? yes! why? I enjoy the atmosphere of the pub. If you do not like smokey pubs, do not go to them. If you drink in Baroosh and do not like the smell of smoke stand in the non smoking section. They will not ban smoking it brings in too much tax revenue. Unless forced by the govenment, pub and bars will not ban smoking as they will loose revenue. At the end of the day, its all boils down to money. Get used to it!
Reply ID 5782
I agree. Eventually it will happen. And we will look back on the folly of it all.
Reply ID 5783
where will the down fall in tax revenue come from then?
Reply ID 5784
you, me and the good burghers of Hertford
Reply ID 5787
Let em smoke then, keep our taxes down!
Reply ID 5790
as I said in a previous post.........the great loss in tax is partly myth. Money saved would be spent elsewhere and would be subject to tax, albeit not at such a great level. Then there is also the significant savings from a reduction in healthcare costs. And the softer, non-financial benefits are immense.
Reply ID 5791
Apart from The White Horse, are there any other pubs in Hertford that have non-smoking areas? (indoors that is)
Reply ID 5794
quote:The Salisbury has a no-smoking room, to the left as you go in. You still need to go to the bar in the smoking bit, though.
Originally posted by Steve
Apart from The White Horse, are there any other pubs in Hertford that have non-smoking areas? (indoors that is)
Reply ID 5799
Sailsbury, they do. The White Horse, upstairs area is great - kid's are allowed (well behaved, of course) A few different rooms, loads of character
Reply ID 5840
As an ex smoker & as someone who has recently benefitted from the good side of the NHS following a nasty road accident, my thoughts have changed somewhat to what they were prior to me quitting and to my stay in hospital. I will now never complain about any tax I have paid! The service I got in hospital was unbelievable, having been in there a few weeks I got chatting to a number of staff and longer term patients in terms of the problems with the hospital etc... Now that I have quit smoking I am effectivly spending less money on taxes, now should more people have the good sense to quit I personnaly would be quite happy to see a rise in other taxes to take account for the loss in revenue from the tobacco industry. We are talking a tiny % of our income and I strongly believe it is easy to forget sometime about some of the good that is done with our money that goes on taxes. Admittedly not all of it always goes in the right place! Just my view and due to recent events possibly a slightly blinkered one, but think about it...
Reply ID 5853
Another heavy ex-smoker here.. who also worked in several pubs too! I like non-smoking areas if only that I gave up smoking as it gave me nasty bronchitis and since December 2001 cannot cope with it. I used to love smoking, it then didn't love me. I like non-smoking offices, the fire risks alone are worth not smoking, but I do tolerate and don't dislike the smoking fraternity, I am sorry smoking no longer likes me, the social side of it was pretty good for a bad habit, if you see what I mean! I can see us in the UK going No-smoking but I would like areas for smokers, they are not bad people, I was one for about 20 odd years... My choice is not to smoke as it was clearly going to kill me off, I love life and want a nice "pie and pint" till I am a lot older.. I sit with smokers and have no worries, but I think all smokers know that very soon, within 5-10 years, non-smoking will be the norm... unless they invent a non-cancer forming ciggie of course!!!!!
Reply ID 5866
Let's hope they do. Would you start again with that in mind? I don't want to give up, but then again if that alternative was available!!!! What ever happened to those revoulting herbal things???[:p]