Topic ID 5982
I see the WWII gun placement at the bottom of Welwyn Road Hill, next to the railway, has been uncovered. I tried taking a long exposure night photo with my phone but as you can see it didn't work too well! I'll take another snap next time I pass in daylight[:)] [IMG]http://ploader.net/files/50a2006fc404ed2c96871db22d08e2ff.jpg[/IMG]
Reply ID 81334
This is an emplacement for the Home Guard 29mm Spigot mortar (Blacker Bombard). The domed concrete cylinder (thimble) in the centre of your picture has a stainless steel pin set into the top onto which the weapon was mounted. The slab in the foreground is the roof of an ammunition locker. I realise its a terrible pun buts its possibly Hertford's only 'concrete' reminder of the WW2 Home Guard.
Reply ID 81335
Although not visible in either photo there appears to be a possible tunnel leading off which goes under the pavement and road. If indeed this is what it appears, theres a dip and crack in the pavement in line with the brick lined trench where it appears to go underground. I know tunnels can be a sore subject here, so I apologise in advance for any distress caused [:D] [IMG]http://ploader.net/files/af130b18c5303f45f1df874d1c592cfb.jpg[/IMG]
Reply ID 81336
The emplacement looks to based on the DFW (Directorate of Fortifications and Works) design 55280. If so there would be a 6 ft. long and 5 ft. deep doglegged access dugout/shelter trench, this could well be your tunnel.
Reply ID 81338
quote:Spigot motar.............Dad is always talking about those he was in the Home Grard based on Port Hill, I belive it was one of those that blew up while they were practicing inside in the building that used to be on the corner of Port Hill and the entrance to Hartham car park. A number of them were injured but not seriously thankfully though he still has the scar to this day! He may not be concrete but he is a reminder of the Home Guard in WW2 along with a number of other people who are still living locally. Must ask him about that placement in the photo, he would know where others were I suspect.
Originally posted by Quatermass
This is an emplacement for the Home Guard 29mm Spigot mortar (Blacker Bombard). The domed concrete cylinder (thimble) in the centre of your picture has a stainless steel pin set into the top onto which the weapon was mounted. The slab in the foreground is the roof of an ammunition locker. I realise its a terrible pun buts its possibly Hertford's only 'concrete' reminder of the WW2 Home Guard.
Reply ID 81341
quote:are you the Quatermass of the "Quatermass and Pit" fame [:)]
Originally posted by Quatermass
The emplacement looks to based on the DFW (Directorate of Fortifications and Works) design 55280. If so there would be a 6 ft. long and 5 ft. deep doglegged access dugout/shelter trench, this could well be your tunnel.
Reply ID 81351
Whereabouts is this exactly?
Reply ID 81354
quote:[IMG]http://ploader.net/files/81260705eaa2b60cc01add4da4db0dd2.jpg[/IMG]
Whereabouts is this exactly?
quote:Yes that sounds about right, thanks [:)]
If so there would be a 6 ft. long and 5 ft. deep doglegged access dugout/shelter trench, this could well be your tunnel.
Reply ID 81355
I had a phone call from Cllr David Poole last night as he had been told about this thread! He is the one that has organised getting it uncovered and tidied up by the railway who own the land, they have been very good and done it very quickly, he was so upset with the way it looked before. He is very passionate about Hertford's past and hopes to get a plaque put on it explaining what it is so everone knows it is not just a concrete slab! If anyone has any more information can they contact him via The Castle / Town Council. I think his details are on thier website but they will always give him a message or I can.
Reply ID 81358
Does anyone have a picture of what it would have looked like originally? And was it manned?
Reply ID 81359
quote:That will be my uncle Bernard! Ewoowar, I do have a couple of manuals for the weapon which show how an emplacment would have looked when it was manned. I can't seem to work out how to post pictures but if i can i will. Marilyn, are the manuals the sort of information that Cllr Poole is looking for?
are you the Quatermass of the "Quatermass and Pit" fame [:)]
Reply ID 81360
It would be good if any plaque had an image of what the emplacement looked like originally.
Reply ID 81361
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00fzw0v[/url] Listen to the Iplayer from about 7:30
Reply ID 81362
quote:Yes I would think david is after any information about what it looked like, how it was used etc. he is grateful for anything, he was only a little boy at the time. Dad has some knowledge of them but he only remembers the one they were expected to carry so it was mobile in theory though it was so heavy they struggled! He can't remember ever putting one on that sort of placement.
Marilyn, are the manuals the sort of information that Cllr Poole is looking for?
Reply ID 81364
quote:I think this gives a basic idea of how they looked and were manned: http://www.brookmans.com/news/may03/spigotmortar.shtml Time Team also found one on one of their excavations a while back and explained a little about them: http://www.brookmans.com/news/may03/spigotmortar.shtml
Originally posted by Ewoowar
Does anyone have a picture of what it would have looked like originally? And was it manned?
Reply ID 81365
quote:It comes to something when you can’t trust Radio 4. The spokesman for the Imperial war museum seems surprisingly ill informed, the mobile mount had four legs not three, the projectile wasn’t a shaped charge and Hertford wasn’t part of the London ‘A’ stop line, apart from that he got it spot on!
Originally posted by Leo Densian
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00fzw0v[/url] Listen to the Iplayer from about 7:30
Reply ID 81369
My Dad got that wrong as well he thought it was 3 legs till I showed him the picture! He did get the round head on top of the mortar right though! I had forgotten about the Time Team find, we did watch that programme and at the time Dad told us the story of his.............again! They didn't have the legs on it when they were practicing as they were inside the hall. When it blew up Dad got shot backwards,he was on the floor behind it the the chap who had loaded it thankfully only got minor arm injuries and a lot of paint up his arm it was that close, he could have lost his arm and the aimer had facial injuries. Had it been fully live they would all have been killed along with the other in the room......................
Reply ID 81373
Marilyn, I'd imagine the instructor in your dads case ended up on a fizzer, the only round that should have been used 'off range' was the completely inert Drill round, it sounds like they were using practice ammunition which is described in the training pamphlet: Although the bomb itself is inert the cartridge is the normal one and will propel the bomb forward in the normal way. This bomb will only be used on a firing range. The three legged weapon your dad remembers was probably a Northover projector, a smooth bore gun that could fire either a No. 36 or No. 76 grenade. The number 76 grenade was a half-pint bottle filled with phosphorous, naptha or benzine and latex. One of the instructions with this weapon was not to fire into a head wind in case the bottle broke in the barrel on firing and the wind blew the contents toward the crew!
Reply ID 81375
quote:That sounds exactly right, they way he descibes it the top part was inert and the bottom should have been but somehow the one they got the bottom part was not inert and as it hit the firing pin it shot out of the tube and through the wall nearly taking the 3 of them with it! I am sure you are right and he mixed up which legs were on which, he is 87 now and gets most things right but we all get details mixed sometimes, I am now having to hunt out pictures on the net for him. David Poole has a lot to answer for starting this!
Originally posted by Quatermass
Marilyn, I'd imagine the instructor in your dads case ended up on a fizzer, the only round that should have been used 'off range' was the completely inert Drill round, it sounds like they were using practice ammunition which is described in the training pamphlet: Although the bomb itself is inert the cartridge is the normal one and will propel the bomb forward in the normal way. This bomb will only be used on a firing range. The three legged weapon your dad remembers was probably a Northover projector, a smooth bore gun that could fire either a No. 36 or No. 76 grenade. The number 76 grenade was a half-pint bottle filled with phosphorous, naptha or benzine and latex. One of the instructions with this weapon was not to fire into a head wind in case the bottle broke in the barrel on firing and the wind blew the contents toward the crew!
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