Topic ID 6144
I was on a bus yesterday evening around 7p.m., only passenger, travelling along Fore Street towards the Wash. We went into the part where there is no access in that direction for cars to be met by a lot of cars coming onto Fore Street. The road was narrow so it became a bit snarled up and a BMW was parked along side the bus, driver to driver. The BMW driver then proceed on a foul mouthed tirade against the bus driver, using disgusting language. He told the bus driver to go up the kerb (how exactly? let alone all the pedestrians) and he was going to 'sort him out'. He was asking the bus driver to get out so he could use his baseball bat on him... The irony is, he could have just turned left into Market Place and be on his merry way. Instead he chose to behave like that. He was extremely threatening and aggressive and I became quite scared. I would estimate him to be in his late fifties, early sixties and I was shocked at this behaviour. He even had a female passenger who did not appear to do anything to stop him. I aas quite upset by it sll although sadly the bus driver shrugged it off saying it is regular occurrence.
Reply ID 82939
This behaviour is inexcusable. However on several occasions I have used this stretch of road driving from Parliament Square to Fore Street and when approximately half way through it a bus driver waiting to enter the road does that, effectively driving straight at me and leaving me no alternative but to back up or find somewhere to pull over. The road can only cope with a single line of traffic yet some bus drivers think it acceptable to simply drive into and against the the oncoming traffic and cause problems.
Reply ID 82940
There is a give way line before the road narrows just outside Hertford House hotel where vehicles can wait. There's another as the road passes the court. However, you'll usually find cars parked in them. And if you think the bus driver has it bad, try cycling up Fore Street.
Reply ID 82943
Are you allowed to cycle up Fore Street - isn't it one way?!
Reply ID 82948
Its not one way; cars and motorcycles are prohibited. I know where James is coming from having cycled that way many times, its not always the cars but the pedestrians stepping off the pavement are a big hazard. The speed at which many cars come along there is also worrying considering the number of children that cross there from the schools on their way to the town.
Reply ID 82956
quote:Think James is referring to the section between Shire Hall and the War Memorial. Pedal cyles are allowed to travel in both directions
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
Are you allowed to cycle up Fore Street - isn't it one way?!
Reply ID 82981
Sadly I find 99% of the time drivers who are aggressive and cut me up usually drive BMWs!
quote:
Originally posted by Kateg28
I was on a bus yesterday evening around 7p.m., only passenger, travelling along Fore Street towards the Wash. We went into the part where there is no access in that direction for cars to be met by a lot of cars coming onto Fore Street. The road was narrow so it became a bit snarled up and a BMW was parked along side the bus, driver to driver. The BMW driver then proceed on a foul mouthed tirade against the bus driver, using disgusting language. He told the bus driver to go up the kerb (how exactly? let alone all the pedestrians) and he was going to 'sort him out'. He was asking the bus driver to get out so he could use his baseball bat on him... The irony is, he could have just turned left into Market Place and be on his merry way. Instead he chose to behave like that. He was extremely threatening and aggressive and I became quite scared. I would estimate him to be in his late fifties, early sixties and I was shocked at this behaviour. He even had a female passenger who did not appear to do anything to stop him. I aas quite upset by it sll although sadly the bus driver shrugged it off saying it is regular occurrence.
Reply ID 83014
Yep. BMWs and Range Rover Sports are overwhelmingly driven by Roger Hunts.
Reply ID 83016
In my experience it's people who drive all sorts of cars. Labeling people just because of the car they drive is retarded.
Reply ID 83018
quote:Absolutely right. Mind you, I always try to avoid drivers who wear a hat while driving. Whether it is a kid with a baseball cap, or an old pork pie and toothbrush moustache, they always spell trouble :-)
Originally posted by steven
In my experience it's people who drive all sorts of cars. Labelling people just because of the car they drive is retarded.
Reply ID 83019
It is not the car that is abusive but the driver and they can get in any make of car and act that way.
Reply ID 83025
quote:In your experience? Well no doubt that is far more correct than anyone else's. However it is a well known truism that BMWs are often driven aggressively and with little regard to their fellow road users. Maybe it is the nature of the car rather than the person that is driving it, but it is undeniable that something happens. And please don't lecture me about labelling people. We all do it to lesser or greater degrees. That's how we make decisions about people.
Originally posted by steven
In my experience it's people who drive all sorts of cars. Labeling people just because of the car they drive is retarded.
Reply ID 83028
quote:Watch out for me then............guess what I drive!....................and my father come to that.
Originally posted by aubendquote:In your experience? Well no doubt that is far more correct than anyone else's. However it is a well known truism that BMWs are often driven aggressively and with little regard to their fellow road users. Maybe it is the nature of the car rather than the person that is driving it, but it is undeniable that something happens. And please don't lecture me about labelling people. We all do it to lesser or greater degrees. That's how we make decisions about people.
Originally posted by steven
In my experience it's people who drive all sorts of cars. Labeling people just because of the car they drive is retarded.
Reply ID 83030
quote:More rubbish. It's the person driving the car, not the car driving itself. I just got back from Hemel and spent all my way there behind a 530, and all the way back behind an M3, both at 60mph on a dry clear A414. A Seat overtook me on the WGC roundabout toward Hertford causing me to swerve slightly and them to drive on the chevrons, and from the A1/A414 roundabout to the smaller roundabout by the car dealerships I saw some shocking driving where two people carriers cut in front of the car ahead of us with inches to spare. If you want sweeping generalisations, I might point out that people only notice "expensive" cars driving badly, because that might suit your idea that he's a "rich idiot" or something. Typical of you to support your ridiculous idea with an ad hominem attack too. I wish this forum had an ignore function just for you and your vitriol
Originally posted by aubend In your experience? Well no doubt that is far more correct than anyone else's. However it is a well known truism that BMWs are often driven aggressively and with little regard to their fellow road users. Maybe it is the nature of the car rather than the person that is driving it, but it is undeniable that something happens. And please don't lecture me about labelling people. We all do it to lesser or greater degrees. That's how we make decisions about people.
Reply ID 83032
anyway isnt all that generalisation a bit out of date? Anyone who watches top gear knows all the cocks have moved from bmw's to audi's, after all, the god clarkson said so, can't be wrong! [:D]
Reply ID 83037
Actually I think there's an element of truth in what aubend said, aggressive drivers are undeniably attracted to certain makes of car, especially ones that are intentionally branded as being powerful, fast and virile. That's certainly my experience, not to say that it's across the board though.
Reply ID 83041
You are right, Steven, it is indeed a person driving the car not the car itself. Much like it is a person that owns a dog. And depending on the personality of that person rests their choice of dog. Bullet headed tattoed idiot: Pitbull. Reasonable and kindly human: Labrador. You sound like a car bore and used some Latin to show off. Well done.
Reply ID 83042
quote:[:)] a classic way of liberally say yes and no in one sentence
Originally posted by dennismoore
Actually I think there's an element of truth in what aubend said, aggressive drivers are undeniably attracted to certain makes of car, especially ones that are intentionally branded as being powerful, fast and virile. That's certainly my experience, not to say that it's across the board though.
Reply ID 83043
quote:And I'll bet none of those bullet headed tattoed idiots with pitbulls live on council estates. Oh no. [:p]
Originally posted by aubend
You are right, Steven, it is indeed a person driving the car not the car itself. Much like it is a person that owns a dog. And depending on the personality of that person rests their choice of dog. Bullet headed tattoed idiot: Pitbull. Reasonable and kindly human: Labrador. You sound like a car bore and used some Latin to show off. Well done.
Reply ID 83044
quote:There aren't any. they were all sold off.
Originally posted by Stevequote:And I'll bet none of those bullet headed tattoed idiots with pitbulls live on council estates. Oh no. [:p]
Originally posted by aubend
You are right, Steven, it is indeed a person driving the car not the car itself. Much like it is a person that owns a dog. And depending on the personality of that person rests their choice of dog. Bullet headed tattoed idiot: Pitbull. Reasonable and kindly human: Labrador. You sound like a car bore and used some Latin to show off. Well done.
Reply ID 83045
quote:And yet you persist with your idiocy [:)] The fact you resort to it proves you cannot argue at an intelligent level. You have nothing to add except to insult me. If you want to label people based upon their appearance, that is up to you, but that is your loss, not mine or anyone else's. How can anyone respect a person such as yourself? Time and time again I console myself with the fact I am not you.
Originally posted by aubend
You are right, Steven, it is indeed a person driving the car not the car itself. Much like it is a person that owns a dog. And depending on the personality of that person rests their choice of dog. Bullet headed tattoed idiot: Pitbull. Reasonable and kindly human: Labrador. You sound like a car bore and used some Latin to show off. Well done.
Reply ID 83046
quote:Thanks James, one does one's best![:)]
Originally posted by James007quote:[:)] a classic way of liberally say yes and no in one sentence
Originally posted by dennismoore
Actually I think there's an element of truth in what aubend said, aggressive drivers are undeniably attracted to certain makes of car, especially ones that are intentionally branded as being powerful, fast and virile. That's certainly my experience, not to say that it's across the board though.
Reply ID 83047
quote:I've thought about this for a few minutes, and all I can say about your ridiculous statements is, you should change your nickname to "bellend".
Originally posted by aubend
You are right, Steven, it is indeed a person driving the car not the car itself. Much like it is a person that owns a dog. And depending on the personality of that person rests their choice of dog. Bullet headed tattoed idiot: Pitbull. Reasonable and kindly human: Labrador. You sound like a car bore and used some Latin to show off. Well done.
Reply ID 83048
quote:Maybe I'm misunderstanding this post, but I thought you might know better. Very disappointing.
Originally posted by Steve And I'll bet none of those bullet headed tattoed idiots with pitbulls live on council estates. Oh no. [:p]
Reply ID 83049
quote:You see that smiley ... ? I hoped it would indicate that I was mischief-making, bearing in mind a contributor's comments elsewhere. [:o)]
Originally posted by stevenquote:Maybe I'm misunderstanding this post, but I thought you might know better. Very disappointing.
Originally posted by Steve And I'll bet none of those bullet headed tattoed idiots with pitbulls live on council estates. Oh no. [:p]
Reply ID 83050
quote:I did say I might be misunderstanding [:)] My apologies. Edit to add, I see what you mean.
Originally posted by Steve You see that smiley ... ? I hoped it would indicate that I was mischief-making, bearing in mind a contributor's comments elsewhere. [:o)]
Reply ID 83051
Spot the difference:
quote:
Originally posted by steven
You have nothing to add except to insult me.
quote:Or how about:
you should change your nickname to "bellend".
quote:
The fact you resort to it proves you cannot argue at an intelligent level.
quote:Mmmmm? Tu quoque or just black pots and kettles amidst a bit of "forum-rage", aptly occurring in a discussion on "road-rage"? [;)]
Typical of you to support your ridiculous idea with an ad hominem attack too.
Reply ID 83052
He or she could have responded with valid arguments but chose not to, instead they chose to attack my response. You're not new here, you know he or she is like. Just look at their last few posts here. Do you have anything to add to the discussion or do you just want to fuel the fire?
Reply ID 83054
Oh dear. Can we all calm down. I am sorry I mentioned the make of car, it wasn't for any particular reason, I just love cars and noted it along with the registration number. I would say that the fact it was a high spec 5 series and brand new (on an 11 plate) so indicates a certain amount of money is possibly relevant althouth his age was more of a shock with this behaviour. The value of the car could imply educated as he can afford one although there are many more reasons, might not even have been his. Whilst BMW drivers have had a reputation before, I would say that it equally applies to big german saloons. I used to drive one. Got a mondeo and an MR2 now, not sure what that says about me......
Reply ID 83055
Going back to the title of the thread "Shocking behaviour by a driver" It was the driver that was being threatening and aggressive NOT the car. In my 20 years of driving I have seen many people from many walks of life, social classes and driving every type of car be threatening and aggressive to other road users. you can't say it's one class of person, or the type of car they drive, it's just who they are.
Reply ID 83057
quote:Agreed. This is about the individual. I'd say it's a fair bet that this individual is most likely a bully in life generally and something his female acquaintance may be used to, hence her inaction.
Originally posted by Joe
Going back to the title of the thread "Shocking behaviour by a driver" It was the driver that was being threatening and aggressive NOT the car. In my 20 years of driving I have seen many people from many walks of life, social classes and driving every type of car be threatening and aggressive to other road users. you can't say it's one class of person, or the type of car they drive, it's just who they are.
Reply ID 83061
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as long as it's Steven's apparently.
Reply ID 83062
Here’s some stereotypes for you all. Audi- Can’t afford a BMW middle class suburban. Wants the brand name. Seat-Should have bought a VW. Likes plastic. Skoda- Doesn’t care about brand names, knows it’s a cheap VW . BMW-I am the big swinging D**K around town or a gangster but can’t afford a merc. Merc-A berk but you have a Merc. Peugeot-Cheap and cheerful, like the owner. Renault-Either a granny or a boy racer. Subaru-Bellend VW-Tried true and reliable, you know where you stand with a VW driver. Porsche-A fan boy likes their cars. Lexus-Old man Toyota-A lamo, no fun, boring. Alfa-Pretty boy or girl, possible career as a hair dresser. Mini-As above. Likes brands, overpriced. Ford-An unjustifiably good name, if they were not American they would be French. Nissan-Higher end People who know what they are buying, don’t care about brand, all about performance. Low end, a granny.
Reply ID 83063
What do you drive then Louis M?
Reply ID 83064
A renault Woop Woop. This thread is taken far too seriously so I thought I would add a bit of humour :) Stereotypes in this format do not hurt anyone and everyone has them.
Reply ID 83068
In my long and sometimes painful experince as a motorist, cyclist and pedestrian, I'd say that there is SOME truth in the aggressive BMW driver stereotype. It's hardly surprising when many manufacturer are happy to promote their cars as powerful, fast, mean machines.
Reply ID 83069
May I just say one more time. It's not the car it's the person. I have seen people in there 60's, flick the finger and swear. I have even seen people that when they pass there driving test at 17. They know more than anyone else. Personally I don't know everything on the road, or claim to know. I have made mistakes. Yes I even flicked the finger - one finger salute, and even the victory sign. On the other hand I have driven from mini's to Rolls-Royce and from 7.5 tonne to 48 tonne. I have never felt the need to "have a go" at someone.
Reply ID 83071
quote:I don't think anyone's suggesting otherwise.
Originally posted by Joe
May I just say one more time. It's not the car it's the person. I have seen people in there 60's, flick the finger and swear. I have even seen people that when they pass there driving test at 17. They know more than anyone else. Personally I don't know everything on the road, or claim to know. I have made mistakes. Yes I even flicked the finger - one finger salute, and even the victory sign. On the other hand I have driven from mini's to Rolls-Royce and from 7.5 tonne to 48 tonne. I have never felt the need to "have a go" at someone.
Reply ID 83074
quote:My remarks are not inflammatory. I am merely pointing out what appear to be contrary statements being made here by you that give rise to confusion. For example, on the one hand you complain about being insulted and then you choose to offer up an insult of your own? You also accuse someone else of using ad hominem comments in an adverse manner and then go and do just that yourself? In your last post you complain because you believe that your response was attacked and then you ask whether I have anything to add, though hinting that I should only add a comment in a manner that pleases you? Who is attacking who's response now? Do I know what Aubend is like? No, I've never met him/her. As for his/her posts, many of them amuse me. I certainly don't believe he/she should be responded to negatively by me just because another forum member has a differing opinion. Perhaps you also missed the smiley at the end of my post?
Originally posted by steven
He or she could have responded with valid arguments but chose not to, instead they chose to attack my response. You're not new here, you know he or she is like. Just look at their last few posts here. Do you have anything to add to the discussion or do you just want to fuel the fire?
Reply ID 83085
I also find that all Range Rover drivers are idiots-sorry, I left that one off the list. Also all Land Rover drivers clearly must be farmers.
Reply ID 83086
Ha ha - I drive a Mini and a Landrover - so what does that make me?!!
Reply ID 83087
Louis....other than being mildly eccentric where do I fit in with my Peugeot Quadrilette Type 172 Two seater ?
Reply ID 83088
quote:A hairdresser who married a farmer I guess?
Originally posted by Kitty Kat
Ha ha - I drive a Mini and a Landrover - so what does that make me?!!
Reply ID 83098
quote:I have nothing but admiration for people who keep classics going but God help you if I am stuck behind your exhaust :P
Originally posted by tiger.1000
Louis....other than being mildly eccentric where do I fit in with my Peugeot Quadrilette Type 172 Two seater ?
Reply ID 83099
quote:There was I thinking all farmers drove a Subaru Ute (proper job m'dear) :-) P
Originally posted by Louis M
I also find that all Range Rover drivers are idiots-sorry, I left that one off the list. Also all Land Rover drivers clearly must be farmers.
Reply ID 83100
Good try but ALL WRONG
Reply ID 83101
quote:Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear - me old pal, me old beauty. P
Originally posted by tiger.1000
Good try but ALL WRONG
Reply ID 83103
I do confess however to carrying a couple of sheep in the passenger seat
Reply ID 83115
I am neither a hairdresser or a farmers wife [:D]
Reply ID 83116
I do think it is a bit of fun but certaintly not cast in stone. I have a toyota but it is in no way boring. It has also suffered with being called a hairdressers car.
Reply ID 83117
quote:oh dear oh dear -- that old stereotype thang..... hrump....[^] “quote” BMW drivers big swinging D**K around town or a gangster but can’t afford a merc....unquote” sorry to disappoint... don’t have a d**k - also not gangster (or in my case gangster’s moll), and I could aford a merc but - chose not to get one as I preferred my BMW![8D] Have also had a Mini, Volvo, Jeep (for use with my horse feed hay and shavings etc., not the school run)..and Lexus - and funnily enough, none of the above sterotypes apply. I do however, have good driving manners, but am not averse to flipping the bird on occasion,[img]http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/c3.gif[/img] screaming out in my head about other drivers who have been d**ks.... Have listened on many occasion to drivers saying they have been driving for years and years, etc. never had an accident, but seen a lot in their rear-view mirrors..... Yes, you know who you are.... I just hope i dont encounter you close up, in future!!*J*[img]http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/c3.gif[/img]
Originally posted by Louis M
Here’s some stereotypes for you all. Audi- Can’t afford a BMW middle class suburban. Wants the brand name. Seat-Should have bought a VW. Likes plastic. Skoda- Doesn’t care about brand names, knows it’s a cheap VW . BMW-I am the big swinging D**K around town or a gangster but can’t afford a merc. Merc-A berk but you have a Merc. Peugeot-Cheap and cheerful, like the owner. Renault-Either a granny or a boy racer. Subaru-Bellend VW-Tried true and reliable, you know where you stand with a VW driver. Porsche-A fan boy likes their cars. Lexus-Old man Toyota-A lamo, no fun, boring. Alfa-Pretty boy or girl, possible career as a hair dresser. Mini-As above. Likes brands, overpriced. Ford-An unjustifiably good name, if they were not American they would be French. Nissan-Higher end People who know what they are buying, don’t care about brand, all about performance. Low end, a granny.
Reply ID 83118
Having just been told my BMW can't be repaired thought I should check what is the correct car for ................ a single, self employed, lady mid 50's living in Bengeo, clean driving licence, who needs and estate type car................... don't want to get it wrong and be in the wrong car for my stereotype[:D]
Reply ID 83119
A Passat estate, I am guessing that you have a couple of dogs. Lovely cars. Or an RS6
Reply ID 83120
quote:Wrong no dogs...............
Originally posted by Louis M
A Passat estate, I am guessing that you have a couple of dogs. Lovely cars. Or an RS6
Reply ID 83121
Same cars, remove the dogs.
Reply ID 83122
Back on topic, more or less, why don't they put "service controlled traffic lights" in the section of road? There are countries US, Canada, Germany, Holland and yes Spain, to name a few. That they use a system of traffic lights that a emergency / public service vehicle can change "there" light to green and the other traffic lights to red. It only takes two sets of lights, two sets of magnetic coils in the ground and one "service" sensor. The "service" sensor works like the automatic toll sensor that have been in use in many places - Dartford Bridge/Tunnel - as a example. It would cost a lot to put it in place but it would in the long term solve the problem. Sorry to waffle on. Joe
Reply ID 83123
Yes sorry,I assume you mean in Fore Street, they could just make it buses only or as was suggested earlier I think close it completely. I still think making the War Memorial back into a roundabout would help some of the congestion at that end of Fore Street. You get abusive drivers everywhere so nothing will make any difference to that.
Reply ID 83124
quote:But that would mean driving over all the people sitting in the sun with their Oeufs Benedicts and Americanos outside Cafe Rouge. You really are a typical BMW driver! [;)]
Originally posted by Marilyn
Yes sorry,I assume you mean in Fore Street, they could just make it buses only or as was suggested earlier I think close it completely. I still think making the War Memorial back into a roundabout would help some of the congestion at that end of Fore Street. You get abusive drivers everywhere so nothing will make any difference to that.
Reply ID 83128
quote:There is one in Harlow on the Church Langley roundabout. When a bus leaves the bus lane Northbound it triggers a red light for all other traffic so that it gets clear passage.
Originally posted by Joe
Back on topic, more or less, why don't they put "service controlled traffic lights" in the section of road? There are countries US, Canada, Germany, Holland and yes Spain, to name a few. That they use a system of traffic lights that a emergency / public service vehicle can change "there" light to green and the other traffic lights to red. It only takes two sets of lights, two sets of magnetic coils in the ground and one "service" sensor. The "service" sensor works like the automatic toll sensor that have been in use in many places - Dartford Bridge/Tunnel - as a example. It would cost a lot to put it in place but it would in the long term solve the problem. Sorry to waffle on. Joe
Reply ID 83136
quote:Serves them right I say! [;)] Not a BMW driver anymore since it died![:(] At the moment I am a Toyota driver.............
Originally posted by dennismoorequote:But that would mean driving over all the people sitting in the sun with their Oeufs Benedicts and Americanos outside Cafe Rouge. You really are a typical BMW driver! [;)]
Originally posted by Marilyn
Yes sorry,I assume you mean in Fore Street, they could just make it buses only or as was suggested earlier I think close it completely. I still think making the War Memorial back into a roundabout would help some of the congestion at that end of Fore Street. You get abusive drivers everywhere so nothing will make any difference to that.
Reply ID 83138
quote:So if it works in Harlow wouldn't it work in Hertford? A roundabout is more difficult to control than a straight section of road.
There is one in Harlow on the Church Langley roundabout. When a bus leaves the bus lane Northbound it triggers a red light for all other traffic so that it gets clear passage.
Reply ID 83144
quote:You've answered your own question.
Originally posted by Joe
Back on topic, more or less, why don't they put "service controlled traffic lights" in the section of road? There are countries US, Canada, Germany, Holland and yes Spain, to name a few. That they use a system of traffic lights that a emergency / public service vehicle can change "there" light to green and the other traffic lights to red. It only takes two sets of lights, two sets of magnetic coils in the ground and one "service" sensor. The "service" sensor works like the automatic toll sensor that have been in use in many places - Dartford Bridge/Tunnel - as a example. It would cost a lot to put it in place but it would in the long term solve the problem. Sorry to waffle on. Joe
Reply ID 83168
quote:Dodgy car dealer?! [:D]
Originally posted by tiger.1000
Louis....other than being mildly eccentric where do I fit in with my Peugeot Quadrilette Type 172 Two seater ?
Reply ID 83404
Desirability is all in the eyes of the beholder though - Bengeo Rat Run doesn't do it for me - reminds me of Hackney [:D]
Reply ID 83411
Is this comment on the right topic?
Reply ID 83414
Sorry = meant to be on the topic about Mangrove Road and the desirability of housing somehow correlating to lack of parking. [:I] Admin - please beat me with your stick !
Reply ID 83416
quote:And shouldn't that be in 'Leisure and Entertainment?'
Originally posted by newgirl
Sorry = meant to be on the topic about Mangrove Road and the desirability of housing somehow correlating to lack of parking. [:I] Admin - please beat me with your stick !
Reply ID 83417
quote:Can I do it?
Originally posted by newgirl
Sorry = meant to be on the topic about Mangrove Road and the desirability of housing somehow correlating to lack of parking. [:I] Admin - please beat me with your stick !
Reply ID 83419
quote:For what it is worth, I think it was a very valid point on the other topic and I totally agree with you! I use to live in Hackney Road in London.............. I won't beat you though!
Originally posted by newgirl
Sorry = meant to be on the topic about Mangrove Road and the desirability of housing somehow correlating to lack of parking. [:I] Admin - please beat me with your stick !
Reply ID 83420
Very glad to hear it - I was half expecting to get some "stick" from the ardent Bengeophiles but didn't realise there was a whole alternative entertainment industry built around it [:I] Possible gap in the market in Hertford??? Off topic so I might get beaten again......
Reply ID 83427
I can share a secret, I don't live in Bengeo, I live on the dreaded Sele Farm. And although some parts are not good, other parts are quite nice. My little cul de sac is very genteel. The reputation is not deserved in my opinion.
![http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/c3.gif[/img]](http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/c3.gif[/img]){kind=link}