Topic ID 74
Whilst it can't be a bad thing that the local autrhorities realise that there are problems in Hertford, some of the proposals are a bit unusual - moving the bus stop to the middle of the road in Fore Street, - a toucan crossing in Gascoyne Way I'm not sure these are the best way to solve the town's problems.
Reply ID 300
Forgive my igorance. What is a toucan crossing?
Reply ID 302
A toucan crossing is a combined pedestrian/cyclist crossing. The proposal is to link Castle Street and West Street across Gascoyne Way, which at this point will become a 30mph zone.
Reply ID 304
RE: the Toucan crossing: Stand by for huge tailbacks on Gascoyne Way, of the type which already coincide with the operating times of the traffic lights near the Ware Rd roundabout, and miraculously disappear when the lights go off. As for putting a bus stop in the middle of the road -- this is a Ken Livingstone-style idea, designed to stop cars getting in front of the bus when it stops. The problem (apart from it being a really snide and poorly-disguised attack on car drivers) is that you get a huge tailback behind the stationary bus, delaying everyone....including other buses! When will our councillors realise that our town centre doesn't need these politically-correct idiocies? Drivers might well avoid the town centre I suppose -- and go shopping in Hatfield/Welwyn/Harlow etc instead.
Reply ID 307
I am going to be really controversial now and say that I actually APPRECIATE the bluecoats traffic lights! This is because I often have to use one of the turnings just off the roundabout and up the hill of London Road. If it wasn't for these lights I would NEVER be able to pull out on to the dual carriageway. At least when the lights are working there is a five second gap now and then. The speed of the traffic both up and down that hill is frightening. Someone is going to go in to the back of me one of these days as I slow down to turn off it. They are going so fast that they are too near to see the indicators going as I slow down. And on that same subject - why do solitary cars coming up that hill stick rigidly to the left hand lane even though they can see cars waiting to pull out? I could go on and on..... But bus stops in the middle of the road... presumably that means passengers getting on and off in the middle of the road? Can't wait to see that!
Reply ID 311
Hi Newgirl Yes - I can see your point about the dual carriageway. Very few people seem to slow down for the 40 as they are coming into town. Me - I'm really grateful for being able to get around without too many obstructions to my journey, so I stick to limits in Hertford in a way that I never did in London, where I felt very 'persecuted' as a motorist. I'm not sure how I'll feel now that I'm no longer welcome in H/ford town centre. I'm assuming that the bus stops, by the way, will be in the middle of the road by virtue of the pavement being built out across the full width of one lane. Should be a marvellous congestion buster - I don't think.....
Reply ID 313
Excerpts of the plans can be seen at http://www.hertford.net/issues/2003/enhance.asp Remember to visit the exhibition at The Corn Exchange! Edited by - Steve on 24 Sep 2003 20:09:43
Reply ID 322
I'd love to visit - but won't bother unless I can park my car within 2 feet of the front door. Just joking!
Reply ID 323
newgirl With the lack of traffic wardens, you can!
Reply ID 325
What a great place for a crossing. On a bend where traffic is accelerating off the roundabout.
Reply ID 326
It looks like the council are having yet another go at trying to discourage drivers from 'cruising' around the town centre looking for parking spaces. There is another way.... How about making the car parks 'pay on exit', or at the very least introduce a half hour payment period for the people who are just nipping into the town in their lunch break. Except we were told only a few months ago that there was no money available for this. Now the council want to spend even more money trying to force shoppers out of the town. The Bus stops in the middle of Fore Street will be a laugh when the 395 stops for five minutes to collect a bus-load of passengers for Sele farm. With any luck the queues will reach all the way back to Bluecoats roundabout, to fight with the queue of traffic trying to get into Ware Road. Maybe this all sounds cynical, but there have already been so many piecemeal schemes in the town centre. Each new one just seems to create yet another problem, to be solved by the next scheme and so on.
Reply ID 327
How about a congestion charge in the town centre!
Reply ID 331
The council rep at the exhibition explained that the idea of the bus stops in the road was to provide better disabled access to the buses. There would be level access from the pavement instead of the current step down from the curb and then step up into the bus etc. Buses often have to stop in the middle of the road now because of all the parked cars! Overall I think it is a good plan - why do cars need to go into Fore Street? There are never any free parking spots and they can get to the Waitrose car park via South Street. Andy
Reply ID 340
I visited the new proposals at the corn exchange, hoping to be impressed. But to me, it was a simple waste of money, by an out of touch council. The "exibition" started with lots of photos of cars parked all over the curbs in the town. Then it lead onto the plans to switch large parts of the town to single lane traffic. When I pointed out to the officer that the problem of illegally parked cars was a simple matter of traffic violation management, rather than tinkering with the roads yet again, they did not have an answer. They admitted that they will not take control of the traffic wardens (it will be contracted out) until April 2004, and that the police are not doing their jobs. They are wasting £110,000 of our money, on half baked ideas, purely so they can use up their budget before the end of the financial year. So what do we get? Another cab rank, when there the town is already over subscribed with taxi's, and already has two ranks, one of which is never used. This new rank will be at the expense of casual parking spaces (again), so there will be even less places to park. Market street will be turned to one lane. So now, if a car parks up on the yellow lines, the buses have no chance of getting through, rather than the slim chance they have now. Fore Street will effectively be turned to single lane, with the bus stop in the middle of the road. So now, when two buses queue up, the taffic will back up past the Sportsman lights and clog yet another junction. We get 12 new bike stands. Hmm. Nice idea. But would want to cycle more into the town, through the traffic? We get new bollards and yorkshire stone. Great. More ground for the cable companies to channel with tarmac like the rest of it. Due to the fact the council let them get away with it. We get a new cycle way, running all the way from the Hertingfordbury roundabout, to West Street. It will swap sides of the road, half way along its route. Where will these cyclists come from? Starting from the Hertingfordbury roundabout, is it to cater for the massive bike popluation in the tiny village? Or is it for the masses of cycling commuters coming to Hertford from Welwyn, along the busy A414 every day? It can't be for the popluation of Sele Farm, as they would take the more direct route, past Hertford North, using the existing cycle path. So who is it for? Funny. The council could not answer that one. Could I let my feeling be known, via the questionaire on offer? Of course not, at least, not in the form of a vote. They rigged the questions so that they can progress with the changes. They asked "Do you think that more opportunities should be made available to enviromentally friend modes of transport like cycling? Answer yes, no or not sure. They completely avoided asking questions like "Do you think the council are correct in spending tax payers money on 900 yards of cycle route, starting in the middle on nowhere?" Of course, if they are going to ask weighted questions, they are going to get their way. If I sound like I am annoyed, I am. A waste of money, that is simple jobs worth, done to spend the budget. But worst of all, it means more disruption to shops and public, and it will make things worse as a result. The funny thing is, when I was there, I saw about 40 people come and go, and EVERY one through the plans were stupid. Everyone I have spoken to since thinks the ideas are stupid. Yet, when the Mercury printed the planners comments, he said the cycle route in particular was being praised by the public. I bet he's basing it on the "vote" from the questions.
Reply ID 341
Having just moved to Hertford, I'm not fully up to speed on this, but doesn't the Cole Green Way go from around Hertingfordbury somewhere? If so, could this cycle path meet-up with that? As for the rest, it seems the best way is to make the main, central part of the town centre pedestrian (and bus?) only and have some decent and close-by long and short-term car parks? The multi-storey does some of this.
Reply ID 344
This the plan. It is part of National Cycle Route No.61 and the proposal is to provide a link through the town from the Cole Green Way to the cycle path to Ware.
Reply ID 345
So, just for clarification, where does Cole Green Way start? Just so I can find it - there doesn't seem to be an indication on the section of this site about it.
Reply ID 346
It goes to Welwyn Garden City, running along the old railway line. I believe it starts just by Hertford Football Club.
Reply ID 347
Thanks. It was just the starting point I was after. How will the cycle route along the A414 link the two, if Cole Green Way (just found it now on Multimap see link below) meets up with West St. anyway? Unfortunately I was moving when the plan was on display, so didn't get to see the details. http://makeashorterlink.com/?H6CE21316
Reply ID 350
A lot of town centre traffic is due to people driving around looking for parking spaces. Check out the constant stream of traffic turning around at the Folly Island end of Bull Plain if you need evidence of this. I used to think that it was just people being lazy but I've come to the conclusion that it's probably due to drivers not wanting to pay parking charges for a five minute stay. Also, I'm not convinced that many people are aware of the Hartham Common car park and how close it is to the town centre. There are vehicles doubled parked in Bull Plain while a car park two minutes walk away sits half empty :( The money allocated for this project would be better spent on providing better facilities designed to keep traffic away from the town centre, not hindering the traffic that is already in it!
Reply ID 354
Yeah, that's what I was meaning in my bit about parking. A couple of free up to 30 mins car parks (or sections of car park) would be useful, like you have a stations. Decent signing of them too.
Reply ID 359
I have often wondered why the Bircherley Green car park seems to be the only one decently signposted. If Hartham etc were signposted as "town centre parking" then more visitors would use it. Also the car parks on Old London Road and just behind the Ware Road are hardly used (at weekends anyway) because they are not properly signed from the approach roads as shoppers car parks.
Reply ID 364
I agree with Dude on this one. The council appear to be going for the usual simplistic car-bashing when, as he says, the only thing that's needed is proper parking enforcement and an intelligent approach to 'stop & shop' drivers who are just nipping in and don't want to pay a 2hr minimum in the car park. And another thing! How much did the council tax go up last year? 17%? And now this wastage. Scandalous.
Reply ID 403
Is there nothing that can be done about this? It seems to be both a shocking waste of money and a complete disaster in terms of people coming in to hertford. Whilst I am all for alternative methods of transport, the fact remains that public transport is not all it should be, and therefore people will rely on their cars. The council needs to wake up and listen to the views of the people that vote them in. Is there any way this web page can be sent to the council and they can be asked to respond to our views?
Reply ID 405
Ever since the buses were de-regulated, the local transport outside big cities has been a shambles. I may not have been great before then, but that (and Stagecoach's, etc. subsequent tactics) ensured that it got worse. The council say that over 50% of responses at the meeting were in favour of their proposals. It seems that that was the local population's only chance to affect them.